Coronavirus thread

Started by JBS, March 12, 2020, 07:03:50 PM

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Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Novak Djokivic's bid for a waiver to enter the United States has failed.

The real news is that the US Open and the USTA threw their support behind Djokovic's attempt at receiving special permission to enter the United States without vaccination. Imo, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and worse than the Australian counterparts.


https://sports.yahoo.com/novak-djokovic-withdraws-from-indian-wells-ahead-of-draw-after-losing-covid-19-vaccine-waiver-043446458.html

Todd

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 07, 2023, 02:35:08 AMNovak Djokivic's bid for a waiver to enter the United States has failed.

The article must have the wrong date stamp.  This must be from March 2022 and not this year.  Either that, or Yahoo took an article from The Onion seriously.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd

From the World Bank: COVID-19's Impact on Young People Risks a Lost Generation

This summary contains a link to a twenty-five page report.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Karl Henning

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 07, 2023, 02:35:08 AMThe real news is that the US Open and the USTA threw their support behind Djokovic's attempt at receiving special permission to enter the United States without vaccination. Imo, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and worse than the Australian counterparts.
Money over public health considerations: especially hypocritical of sports organizations, yes?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Karl Tirebiter Henning on March 07, 2023, 08:47:55 AMMoney over public health considerations: especially hypocritical of sports organizations, yes?

Yes.
I knew that USTA and USOpen were sexist organizations, but didn't know that they were that corrupt and defiant.

Madiel

It's professional sport. It's designed to make money. He's a huge draw card. He's a brilliant tennis player.

Unfortunately he also has some slightly woo woo ideas about health and medicine.

I wasn't actually aware until this story that the USA hadn't relaxed its travel rules to the same degree that Australia has. Quite surprising to be honest.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on March 07, 2023, 12:48:34 PMI wasn't actually aware until this story that the USA hadn't relaxed its travel rules to the same degree that Australia has. Quite surprising to be honest.

+ 1.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

A new study found 59 percent of long-COVID patients had organ damage, but experts say it's not that simple
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Todd

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Madiel

Quote from: Todd on March 14, 2023, 07:55:19 AMFrom the United States Congress Committee on Oversight and Accountability:

COVID Origins Hearing Wrap Up: Facts, Science, Evidence Point to a Wuhan Lab Leak



As soon as someone uses the phrase "mainstream media", rather then just "media", my assessment of their credibility drops.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Todd

From The Weather Channel (?): New Research Indicates COVID-19 Pandemic May Have Originated in Raccoon Dogs of Wuhan Market in China

Bats, pangolins, and raccoon dogs all have one thing in common: they taste great when deep fried.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

drogulus


    W.H.O. Accuses China of Hiding Data That May Link Covid's Origins to Animals

With huge amounts of genetic information drawn from swabs of animal cages, carts and other surfaces at the Wuhan market in early 2020, the genetic data had been the focus of restless anticipation among virus experts since they learned of it a year ago in a paper by Chinese scientists.

A French biologist discovered the genetic sequences in the database last week, and she and a team of colleagues began mining them for clues about the origins of the pandemic.

That team has not yet released a paper outlining the findings. But the researchers delivered an analysis of the material to a W.H.O. advisory group studying Covid's origins this week in a meeting that also included a presentation by Chinese researchers regarding the same data.

The analysis seemed to clash with earlier contentions by Chinese scientists that samples taken in the market that were positive for the coronavirus had been ferried in by sick people alone, said Sarah Cobey, an epidemiologist and evolutionary biologist at the University of Chicago who was not involved in the recent research.


     The Chinese are not happy with the most plausible and well evidenced theory that animals from the wet market infected humans. They want the story to be humans brought the virus into China.

     The best that can be said for the lab leak theory is that it's possible. It's that bad.

Dr. Cobey was one of 18 scientists who signed an influential letter in the journal Science in May 2021 urging serious consideration of a scenario in which the virus could have spilled out of a laboratory in Wuhan.

On Friday, she said lab leaks continued to pose enormous risks and that more oversight of research into dangerous pathogens was needed. But Dr. Cobey added that an accumulation of evidence — relating to the clustering of human cases around the Wuhan market, the genetic diversity of viruses there, and now the raccoon dog data — strengthened the case for a market origin.


     
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Karl Henning

Quote from: drogulus on March 18, 2023, 09:24:45 AMThe best that can be said for the lab leak theory is that it's possible. It's that bad.
By it's that bad, do you mean the theory is that weak?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus

Quote from: Karl Henning on March 18, 2023, 11:59:08 AMBy it's that bad, do you mean the theory is that weak?

    It's a "low confidence" theory according to the Energy Dept. assessment.

    A NYTimes article says:

Scientists who have studied the genetics of the virus, and the patterns by which it spread, say the most likely cause is that the virus jumped from live mammals to humans — a phenomenon known as "zoonotic spillover" — at the Huanan market, where the first cases of Covid-19 emerged in late 2019.

But other scientists say circumstantial evidence points to the virus having escaped from a lab, possibly the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which had deep expertise in researching coronaviruses. Lab mistakes do happen: In 2014, after accidents involving bird flu and anthrax, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tightened its biosafety practices.


    The lab leak theory is about something that might have happened. The wet market theory is about evidence that something did happen.

   
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krummholz

Quote from: drogulus on March 19, 2023, 07:27:17 AMThe lab leak theory is about something that might have happened. The wet market theory is about evidence that something did happen. 

I would not place much stock in how much "confidence" a government agency has in a particular assessment, and the evidence in favor of the lab leak theory is not entirely circumstantial.

I've been following a very interesting discussion on one of the AAAS forums. According to one gentleman on that forum, a biotech entrepreneur, the presence of a furin cleavage site in the SARS CoV-2 genome is extremely unlikely to have come about except by human manipulation, because no closely related coronavirus has such a site, and because if it developed somehow in a mammal other than man, it would reduce, rather than enhance, the virus's transmissibility.

The strongest argument against the lab leak theory is the fact that samples of the virus itself were found in stalls that housed the most susceptible species at the Wuhan market. The only way the lab leak theory can explain that finding is by a worker at the market who was infected by exposure to someone infected at the lab, and then transmitted the virus to an animal - reverse zoonosis, another possible but very unlikely event.

So it seems that whichever theory you prefer, the other theory's proponents have an argument that seems to rule out your favored theory.

I'm highly skeptical of both arguments since each relies on an intuitive notion of "very unlikely" or "extremely unlikely", and human intuition about probability is famously unreliable - most beliefs in the paranormal are a consequence of that fact.

(Of course, one possibility is that the furin codon found its way onto the virus inside a HUMAN host, perhaps an immunocompromised person who was infected with a different virus that does have the furin codon. That theory doesn't involve a lab, but also requires reverse zoonosis to explain the findings from the market stall samples.)

I don't think we have enough evidence to draw a firm conclusion about the virus's origins, and very likely we never will.

Karl Henning

Quote from: drogulus on March 19, 2023, 07:27:17 AMIt's a "low confidence" theory according to the Energy Dept. assessment.
Yes, exactly. The Endergy Dept would not be alone there.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Madiel

I'm still mystified how something called the Energy Department is an intelligence agency. Never mind one dabbling in virology.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on March 19, 2023, 12:31:52 PMI'm still mystified how something called the Energy Department is an intelligence agency. Never mind one dabbling in virology.
You and me, both, really ....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Dry Brett Kavanaugh


krummholz

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 20, 2023, 02:02:33 AMNew Evidence Supports Animal Origin of COVID Virus - Scientific American.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-evidence-supports-animal-origin-of-covid-virus-through-raccoon-dogs/

Just to point out that this is not new, independent evidence, but another article detailing the same evidence that has been mentioned here before (including by yours truly this weekend).

The RNA evidence from the market is the strongest evidence for the zoonosis theory yet, but even this article concedes that it is not conclusive:

QuoteThe new evidence does not directly prove that SARS-CoV-2 jumped into humans from infected raccoon dogs, but it adds to a growing body of evidence in favor of a spillover from animals.

"These data do not provide a definitive answer to the question of how the pandemic began, but every piece of data is important in moving us closer to that answer," said the World Health Organization's director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in a news briefing on Friday.