George Lloyd

Started by Thom, April 14, 2007, 12:37:44 PM

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relm1

#100
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2016, 08:44:15 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NGaYZ7K3oa8

I really enjoyed this documentary.  Thanks for posting.  What an interesting example of perseverance and sticking to one's true voice even if its not appreciated.  It would have been much easier for him to just write contemporary style.  I am glad he stuck it out and became such a prolific writer.  It sort of reminds me of Derek Bourgeois as a very interesting and prolific (extremely prolific) example of writing whatever he desires regardless of trends.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 04, 2016, 08:44:15 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NGaYZ7K3oa8
I also watched it right through tonight (instead of doing my work  8)). What a moving documentary, especially the very ending. The early reference to Vaughan Williams was hilarious. It is really about the triumph of perseverance in the face of apparently insurmountable obstacles. Many thanks John for posting this.  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

One thing I didn't understand - and maybe some Brits can elucidate us...what does it mean to have something "accepted by the BBC"?  They said after years of trial his Symphony No. 8 was accepted by the BBC but had to wait years to be performed.  What is the acceptance for and does that mean music doesn't get performed if its not accepted?   ???

calyptorhynchus

Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

vandermolen

#104
Quote from: relm1 on June 07, 2016, 12:50:11 PM
One thing I didn't understand - and maybe some Brits can elucidate us...what does it mean to have something "accepted by the BBC"?  They said after years of trial his Symphony No. 8 was accepted by the BBC but had to wait years to be performed.  What is the acceptance for and does that mean music doesn't get performed if its not accepted?   ???
My own understanding is that it has been accepted for (eventual?) performance and/or broadcast by the BBC. For example for performance at the annual BBC Proms concerts in London (or at one of their regional concerts) or broadcast on the 'Third Programme' (Now BBC Radio 3).  There was/is a committee which made a judgment about the work. In the 1960s/70s, when the chairman was William Glock, they were quite hostile to tonal music written in a more conventional idiom, such as that composed by George Lloyd.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on June 07, 2016, 01:47:53 PM
Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.
I don't like all his music and sometimes it does seem to go on for too long but symphonies 4 (born out of his traumatic wartime experience - he was one of the few British composers to serve in the armed forces, as it points out in the documentary) and 7 are very fine in my opinion and I am often moved by his music.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

Quote from: vandermolen on June 07, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
My own understanding is that it has been accepted for (eventual?) performance and/or broadcast by the BBC. For example for performance at the annual BBC Proms concerts in London (or at one of their regional concerts) or broadcast on the 'Third Programme' (Now BBC Radio 3).  There was/is a committee which made a judgment about the work. In the 1960s/70s, when the chairman was William Glock, they were quite hostile to tonal music written in a more conventional idiom, such as that composed by George Lloyd.

I see.  So it almost sounds like a music publisher with their own network of orchestras (and all the associated PR that is associated with a broadcasting network).  Though I assume the BBC is not for profit whereas a publisher is, they are effectively adding this work to their roster of performable works.  This does not mean that if it isn't accepted into the BBC that it matters so much since orchestras like the Royal Philharmonic, London Symphony, London Philharmonic, etc., are not BBC but obviously orchestras such as BBC Philharmonic, BBC Concert, BBC NOW, etc., are.  Did I get that right?

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on June 08, 2016, 12:40:59 PM
I see.  So it almost sounds like a music publisher with their own network of orchestras (and all the associated PR that is associated with a broadcasting network).  Though I assume the BBC is not for profit whereas a publisher is, they are effectively adding this work to their roster of performable works.  This does not mean that if it isn't accepted into the BBC that it matters so much since orchestras like the Royal Philharmonic, London Symphony, London Philharmonic, etc., are not BBC but obviously orchestras such as BBC Philharmonic, BBC Concert, BBC NOW, etc., are.  Did I get that right?
That sounds right to me although I'm no expert.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

#108
I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well (although I do have  a Piano concerto,by him) because it sounds like film music!! ??? ;D I particularly enjoy the 'Luke Sky Walker/Star Wars' shennanigans of the finale,in which Lloyd seems to be trying to make each orchestral climax even bigger,louder and more spectacular than the one preceding it! What the heck it's got to do with the legend (I think it's about Peresephone) I don't know! I'll have to look at the notes again) but ooh,it's fun!! A lovely slow movement,too and I love the mysterious way the symphony opens and dwindles away into silence,as mysteriously and enigmatically as it began. It's quite magical. It's not an epoch shattering masterpiece,but it's not to be sneered at in George Sanders style either!!
I wish Telarc (not sure if they're still going?) or Chandos would do this one. It's the sort of music that would benefit from state of the art recording technology;although the Albany is very good. You could literally shake the house down!! ??? :o ;D

I currently have the cassette release of the Seventh,not the cd! I haven't bought the cd for fear that I will immediately decide I need the Whole lot!! :( No's 4 and 5 (which I DID hear on the radio & record onto a tape,some years ago) are certainly  very tempting! I remember the Fifth had a particularly lovely slow movement. Luckily,I do have a cassette deck. I may 'cheat' and transfer the cassette onto a cd-r. All I need is a lead,apparently,to connect to the pc.
I think the cassette of a Piano concerto I own is of the third? I think it has some connection with the war and a dreaded night time knock on the door?!! Someone here will know?! I think it has some good music in it,and that part is the most memorable. Maybe it goes on a bit too long for it's material;but I think,overall, I enjoyed it?!

I'll 'dig e'm out' a bit later!

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 09, 2016, 12:41:22 AM
I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well (although I do have  a Piano concerto,by him) because it sounds like film music!! ??? ;D I particularly enjoy the 'Luke Sky Walker/Star Wars' shennanigans of the finale,in which Lloyd seems to be trying to make each orchestral climax even bigger,louder and more spectacular than the one preceding it! What the heck it's got to do with the legend (I think it's about Peresephone) I don't know! I'll have to look at the notes again) but ooh,it's fun!! A lovely slow movement,too and I love the mysterious way the symphony opens and dwindles away into silence,as mysteriously and enigmatically as it began. It's quite magical. It's not an epoch shattering masterpiece,but it's not to be sneered at in George Sanders style either!!
I wish Telarc (not sure if they're still going?) or Chandos would do this one. It's the sort of music that would benefit from state of the art recording technology;although the Albany is very good. You could literally shake the house down!! ??? :o ;D

I currently have the cassette release of the Seventh,not the cd! I haven't bought the cd for fear that I will immediately decide I need the Whole lot!! :( No's 4 and 5 (which I DID hear on the radio & record onto a tape,some years ago) are certainly  very tempting! I remember the Fifth had a particularly lovely slow movement. Luckily,I do have a cassette deck. I may 'cheat' and transfer the cassette onto a cd-r. All I need is a lead,apparently,to connect to the pc.
I think the cassette of a Piano concerto I own is of the third? I think it has some connection with the war and a dreaded night time knock on the door?!! Someone here will know?! I think it has some good music in it,and that part is the most memorable. Maybe it goes on a bit too long for it's material;but I think,overall, I enjoyed it?!

I'll 'dig e'm out' a bit later!
No.7 is very good I agree. Reading that a work 'sounds like film music' isn't a turn off for me either - Alwyn's Symphony 1 comes to mind. Yes, Lloyd's PC. No.3 has an excellent slow movement which I think is supposed to represent the dreaded 'knock on the door' in the night from the Gestapo in the occupied countries during the Second World War. The work rather reminds me of Khachaturian which is a plus for me. Also, that slow movement is not dissimilar to the theme music for the film 'The Diary of Anne Frank' (black and white version) in the section where they are all dreading being discovered by the Gestapo. The Lyrita set of symphonies 4,5 and 8 is brilliant if you want to ration yourself. They are my favourite recordings of all three symphonies.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

I like the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto,so I'm going to have to have another listen. Incidentally,I suppose I shouldn't really ask this here;but I will!! ;D Which is your favourite recording of that work? I have the Katin/Rignold recording on a cd-r. One I downloaded off one of those vinyl blogs and the other one,I haven't transfered yet,which is a paid for download. I coupled it with Prokofiev's third,because I couldn't think of anything else to couple it with. He should have composed two!! ;D
Going back to the Lloyd. I saw that Lyrita set of 4,5 & 8 in a paper list of cds that was sent out to me a few days ago. It's strange that a paper mailing list seems so extraordinary these days,when I used to spend so much of my time,in pre internet days,poring through those things!!
Of course,I'll feel an overwhelming compulsion to buy the cd of No 7,then!! ???  :( ;D

cilgwyn

#111
Yes,you hear that. "It sounds like film music". My reaction. Does it?!! Okay,must buy that!!! :o ;D

Although,it does depend! If they said it "sounded like "Chariots of Fire"!"  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on June 07, 2016, 01:47:53 PM
Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 09, 2016, 12:41:22 AM
I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well

Am I the only real Lloyd fan around here? (I mean someone who owns, and enjoys, most of the music.)  Among the Symphonies, only the Third and Eighth's last movements disappoint me (the latter too frantic, unvaried and long...at least it seemed so the last time I listened to it). Of the Symphonies, my favorites are 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12 and 2 but the rest have movements worth hearing (e.g., the First's Elgarian variations; the Third's Sturm und Drang first movement and tragic second). I agree they don't have a classical symphony's structure but the haunting moods Lloyd creates along with the inexhaustible melodic magic more than compensate. But then, I like film music too  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

vandermolen

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2016, 12:13:28 PM
Am I the only real Lloyd fan around here? (I mean someone who owns, and enjoys, most of the music.)  Among the Symphonies, only the Third and Eighth's last movements disappoint me (the latter too frantic, unvaried and long...at least it seemed so the last time I listened to it). Of the Symphonies, my favorites are 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12 and 2 but the rest have movements worth hearing (e.g., the First's Elgarian variations; the Third's Sturm und Drang first movement and tragic second). I agree they don't have a classical symphony's structure but the haunting moods Lloyd creates along with the inexhaustible melodic magic more than compensate. But then, I like film music too  8)

Sarge
No, you're not the only fan here Sarge! I like piano concerto 'Scapegoat' and the epic No.3. Of the symphonies, of which I have every one on CD and some in multiple copies ( ::)) my favourites are No.4 (brilliant), No.7, No.8, No.5, No.11 and No.12. I need to explore the Mass and Requiem.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#114
Quote from: cilgwyn on June 09, 2016, 11:10:26 AM
I like the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto,so I'm going to have to have another listen. Incidentally,I suppose I shouldn't really ask this here;but I will!! ;D Which is your favourite recording of that work? I have the Katin/Rignold recording on a cd-r. One I downloaded off one of those vinyl blogs and the other one,I haven't transfered yet,which is a paid for download. I coupled it with Prokofiev's third,because I couldn't think of anything else to couple it with. He should have composed two!! ;D
Going back to the Lloyd. I saw that Lyrita set of 4,5 & 8 in a paper list of cds that was sent out to me a few days ago. It's strange that a paper mailing list seems so extraordinary these days,when I used to spend so much of my time,in pre internet days,poring through those things!!
Of course,I'll feel an overwhelming compulsion to buy the cd of No 7,then!! ???  :( ;D
OT. I like the Moura Lympany version and have just bought the famous version with Boult conducting. I think that my very favourite version is with Yakov Flier conducted by Kondrashin. It has just been reissued on the Italian Urania label but I also have it on Melodiya.  ::) Anyone who likes the Khachaturian PC should warm to the No.3 by George Lloyd (available used for under $2 on US Amazon).
[asin]B0155WELZ2[/asin]
[asin]B0000049L0[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 12:41:20 PM
Of the symphonies, of which I have every one on CD and some in multiple copies ( ::))

I have some duplicates too  ;D ...like the Albany and Conifer 11; two copies of 9. Anyway, glad to hear someone besides me has invested in the lot, or nearly so. I'm missing a few choral and chamber CDs (some priced astronomically now).

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

vandermolen

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2016, 01:02:11 PM
I have some duplicates too  ;D ...like the Albany and Conifer 11; two copies of 9. Anyway, glad to hear someone besides me has invested in the lot, or nearly so. I'm missing a few choral and chamber CDs (some priced astronomically now).

Sarge
es
I have three copies of Symphony 4 one with Downes (the best I think) and two different releases of the same performance conducted by George Lloyd. ::)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Scion7

#117
from The New Grove:

Lloyd, George (Walter Selwyn)

(b St Ives, Cornwall, 28 June 1913; d London, 3 July 1998). English composer and conductor. He studied at the Trinity College of Music, where his teachers included Harry Farjeon and William Lovelock. His first success came in 1932 when he conducted his First Symphony with the Penzance Orchestral Society; the work was performed again the following year with the Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra. The Second Symphony (1933) and a canon for orchestra, since destroyed, were heard in Eastbourne in 1934. His father, who had encouraged him to write operas, became his librettist and their opera Iernin (1933–4), on a Cornish legend, was produced in Penzance in November 1934.

Impressed by the opera, John Ireland recommended Lloyd's Third Symphony (1933, rev. 1935) to Edward Clark at the BBC, where Lloyd was invited to conduct the work on 29 November 1935. In 1938 the Lloyds' second opera, The Serf (1936–8), set during the reign of King Stephen, was performed at Covent Garden and in Liverpool and Glasgow.

During World War II, Lloyd served in the Royal Marines as a bandsman. Assigned to an Artic convoy, he was one of only four survivors when his ship's transmitting station was struck by its own malfunctioning torpedo. Suffering from oil ingestion and shell-shock, he was slowly nursed back to health by his wife.

Eventually relocated to rural Dorset, Lloyd became a market gardener, continuing to compose in his spare time. Over many years, he accumulated a substantial portfolio of new works.  In 1973, he returned to London.

WORKS

Ops (all librettos by W. Lloyd): Iernin (3), 1933–4, Penzance, Nov 1934; The Serf (3), 1936–8, London, 20 Oct 1938, extracts arr. vn, pf; John Socman (3), 1949–51, Bristol, 15 May 1951

Orch: Sym. no.1, 1932, rev. 1934, 1980; Sym. no.2, 1933, Sym. no.3, 1933, rev. 1935; The Serf, concert ov., 1946; Sym. no.4, 1946; Sym. no.5, 1947–8; John Socman, ov., 1951; Sym. no.6, 1956; Sym. no.7, 1959; Sym. no.8, 1961, orchd 1965; Pf Conc. no.1 'Scapegoat', 1963; Pf Conc. no.2, 1964; Pf Conc. no.3, 1968; Suite Charade, 1969; Sym. no.9, 1969; Pf Conc. no.4, 1970, orchd 1983; Vn Conc. no.2, vn, str, 1977; Sym. no.11, 1985; Sym. no.12, 1989; Le Pont du Gard, 1990; The Dying Tree, 1992; Floating Cloud, 1993; The Serf, 2 orch suites, 1997; Vc Conc., 1998

Wind: Trinidad, march, military band, 1941, orchd 1946, arr. 1990; Vn Conc. no.1, vn, wind, 1970; Sym. no.10 'November Journeys', 1981; Royal Parks, 1984, no.2 'In Memoriam', arr. orch; Diversions on a Bass Theme, 1986; English Heritage, 1987; Forest of Arden, 1987; Evening Song, 1991; King's Messenger, 1993

Vocal: The Vigil of Venus (Pervigilium Veneris), S, T, chorus, orch, 1980; A Sym. Mass, chorus, orch, 1992; A Litany, S, B, chorus, orch, 1995; Ps 130, chorus, 1995; Requiem, Ct, chorus, org, 1998; songs, incl. Wantage Bells (J. Betjeman), We'll Go No More a Roving (G. Byron), Noon on the River (W. Lloyd)

Chbr and solo inst: Lament, Air and Dance, vn, pf, 1975; Sonata, vn, pf, 1976; Miniature Triptych, brass qnt, 1981

Pf: An African Shrine, 1966; Aubade, 2 pf, 1971; The Aggressive Fishes, 1972; The Lily-Leaf and the Grasshopper, 1972; The Road Through Samarkand, 1972, arr. 2 pf, 1995; St Antony and the Bogside Beggar, 1972; Suite 'Transformation of the Naked Ape', 1972; Intercom Baby, 1987; Eventide, 2 pf, 1989
Arr.: Les sylphides, small orch, 1935

======================= will edit this down later =====================


Not familiar with the music - will give it a spin when I have some time.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

vandermolen

Thanks for the list of works. Have been listening to Piano Concerto 1 'Scapegoat' which is one of my favourite works by George Lloyd (I nearly wrote 'Lloyd George' then  ???) it is quite short at 25 mins in one movement but powerful and memorable. PC No.3 has a fine memorable and brooding slow movement and a very catchy tune in the finale which is stuck in my head. It is much longer at 48 minutes.
[asin]B0000049LG[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Maestro267

The Twelfth is probably my favourite Lloyd symphony, of the ones I've heard. The second theme (if I've got that right) is absolutely stunning, with a Nimrod-like descending chord pattern in its second half. The symphony also ends with a beautiful Epilogue, a fitting end to his symphony cycle.