George Lloyd

Started by Thom, April 14, 2007, 12:37:44 PM

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vandermolen

Quote from: Maestro267 on June 10, 2016, 01:17:11 AM
The Twelfth is probably my favourite Lloyd symphony, of the ones I've heard. The second theme (if I've got that right) is absolutely stunning, with a Nimrod-like descending chord pattern in its second half. The symphony also ends with a beautiful Epilogue, a fitting end to his symphony cycle.
Yes, very much agree with you.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

I listened to my old Albany musicassettes of his Seventh and third Piano concerto,after managing to hook up a lead from ye olde cassette deck,to the back of my mini hi-fi. I can see what you mean about the Piano concerto reminding you of Khatchaturian. It doesn't share the exotic sound world,but there are similarities in the bravura and percussive style of some of the writing. I'm not a musician,so I can't really hone in on the technicalities;but when you hear the opening the Khatchaturian definitely is the first comparison that springs to mind. Also,like the Khatchaturian,there is a poignancy to some of the more reflective parts which really does move me. The slow movement in particular,is a very striking and,imho,inspired composition. It really does stay in my mind. For all it's duration (and maybe it does go on a bit too long for it's own good?) this is music that I want to go back to and listen again. I honestly think that this is one of the most enjoyable,absorbing and satisfying,British Piano concertos I have heard. Great 'minimalist' 'artwork' on the cover,too! ;D I see that the Fifth Symphony was issued with a similar design. It makes the 'designers' of those old Aries LP sleeves look like 'Hipgnosis'!.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis

cilgwyn

#122
I also think the way the Seventh begins and ends is quite masterly and superb. And the stuff in between is very good too!! ;D If the rest of his output is anywhere near as good,I can't blame Sarge for being a George Lloyd Groupie!! 8)
I haven't got the Fifth Symphony,and,as far as I can ascertain, there never was a cassette release :(;but I can still 'hear' parts of it in my head,from a Radio 3 broadcast,back in the 80s;so it must have made an impression,too! I remember even going to the trouble of recording it on a cassette (from the radio) on at least two occasions. Alas,the tapes got chewed up,long ago! >:( And not in anger!! ;D

I also remembering hearing a broadcast of 'Iernin'!

I must admit,I wasn't aware of this. Is Sarge a member?!! :) Not that he should be. If I joined a society for every composer I liked I wouldn't have any money for cds!

http://www.georgelloyd.com/index.php/the-george-lloyd-society

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 11, 2016, 01:16:15 AM
I must admit,I wasn't aware of this. Is Sarge a member?!! :)

No, I'm not a member. If I join any composer society, it would first be HB. But I'll consider Lloyd. Thanks for pointing to its existence.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

springrite

After reading this thread, I have put symphonies 4, 7, 12 (and 1, which is paired with 2) in my shopping cart.
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

North Star

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 11, 2016, 03:43:15 AM
No, I'm not a member. If I join any composer society, it would first be HB. But I'll consider Lloyd. Thanks for pointing to its existence.

Sarge
Karl will be in tears.  0:)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Rons_talking

I like his 8th Symphony to some extent but most of Lloyd's music sounds uninteresting. He tends to pause between ideas rather than eliding them which can make a listener grow impatient. The music is way too Romantic in its harmony, rhythm, etc. I can see the appeal for those who like that kind of sound, but for me it lacks more than it delivers.

Sergeant Rock



Quote from: North Star on June 11, 2016, 04:08:16 AM
Karl will be in tears.  0:)

There's a KH society? ???  :D

You know I am a faithful reader and listener at Henning's Headquarters.  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 11, 2016, 12:54:56 AM
I listened to my old Albany musicassettes of his Seventh and third Piano concerto,after managing to hook up a lead from ye olde cassette deck,to the back of my mini hi-fi. I can see what you mean about the Piano concerto reminding you of Khatchaturian. It doesn't share the exotic sound world,but there are similarities in the bravura and percussive style of some of the writing. I'm not a musician,so I can't really hone in on the technicalities;but when you hear the opening the Khatchaturian definitely is the first comparison that springs to mind. Also,like the Khatchaturian,there is a poignancy to some of the more reflective parts which really does move me. The slow movement in particular,is a very striking and,imho,inspired composition. It really does stay in my mind. For all it's duration (and maybe it does go on a bit too long for it's own good?) this is music that I want to go back to and listen again. I honestly think that this is one of the most enjoyable,absorbing and satisfying,British Piano concertos I have heard. Great 'minimalist' 'artwork' on the cover,too! ;D I see that the Fifth Symphony was issued with a similar design. It makes the 'designers' of those old Aries LP sleeves look like 'Hipgnosis'!.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis
Very astute analysis John with which I totally agree. The Third Piano Concerto does go on a bit but I love the haunting and ominous slow movement and the catchy theme in the finale stays with me. I'm so pleased that I saw him conduct Symphony 11 which is the other Khachaturian-sounding work in my opinion.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: springrite on June 11, 2016, 04:07:14 AM
After reading this thread, I have put symphonies 4, 7, 12 (and 1, which is paired with 2) in my shopping cart.
All great choices Paul. I was listening to Symphony 4 today - it has a wonderful 'triumph against the odds ending'.
Let us know what you think.  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

#130
Quote from: vandermolen on June 11, 2016, 12:31:53 PM
Very astute analysis John with which I totally agree. The Third Piano Concerto does go on a bit but I love the haunting and ominous slow movement and the catchy theme in the finale stays with me. I'm so pleased that I saw him conduct Symphony 11 which is the other Khachaturian-sounding work in my opinion.
Indeed! But,for a work that "does go on a bit" I did have an overwhelming urge to put it on again,so,imho,Lloyd must have done something right! More wheat than chaff,I think. I loved it;and like the Khatchaturian,there's something "fun" about it! It's the all out bravura of the writing;and the slow movement really is haunting. Also,because my copy was a musicassette,I had a side break. Time for a cup of coffee before the 17' 33" "Vivace" Finale! Maybe,having to turn over to Side 2 was actually a good idea sometimes! ??? ;D


vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 11, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Indeed! But,for a work that "does go on a bit" I did have an overwhelming urge to put it on again,so,imho,Lloyd must have done something right! More wheat than chaff,I think. I loved it;and like the Khatchaturian,there's something "fun" about it! It's the all out bravura of the writing;and the slow movement really is haunting. Also,because my copy was a musicassette,I had a side break. Time for a cup of coffee before the 17' 33" "Vivace" Finale! Maybe,having to turn over to Side 2 was actually a good idea sometimes! ??? ;D
Yes, I agree. I had much the same experience with Symphony 4 yesterday. As soon as it was finished I wanted to play it again. What do you think of GL's much shorter Piano Concerto 1 'Scapegoat'?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

#132
Of course,if it is a bit too long,you have to ask yourself (or the man in the mirror?! ;D) why do I want to play this again,so much?!! Maybe it isn't really a bit too long? Or maybe,there are just a few passages of note spinning here and there,but the majority of is good,or has that tingle factor,that gets you up on your metaphorical feet.......if you aren't standing up while listening,of course?!! I think the latter..............in my case,anyway!

Another one that,I suppose,goes on a bit too long perhaps,and apparently bores some people,is Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica. I love it! All those huge floor shaking,pulverising climaxes,the totally over the top,cinematic splendour of the orchestration and the wonderful tunes,just get me going. I usually end up conducting the orchestra. I feel quite exhilarated at the end of it.

For some strange reason the duration of Lloyd's third Piano concerto has brought to mind another 'block buster' for piano and orchestra. Villa Lobos' Choros No 11. No,I don't think there are any similarities in terms of sound or atmosphere;it's just the sheer scale of the Choros 11 and the fact that this is a work that,like Lloyd's third,possibly goes on a bit?! Again,like Lloyd's third,if it does go on a bit,why do I feel so good after listening to it?! I haven't been too impressed by some of VL's larger scale works,but the Choros No 11 is an exception. In fact,I think it is absolutely amazing,and in terms of the sheer audacity,scale,teeming invention and complexity of the orchestration,truly mind boggling!!

One last thought;and not entirely serious,I might add. (Yes,I think George Lloyd should have used one!! >:( ;D) With all this talk of comparisons between Lloyd and Khatchaturian,it struck me that probably the only thing really missing from Lloyd's third Piano concerto is a Flexatone! ??? ;D

Apologies,I nearly forgot. No,I'm afraid I haven't heard the 'Scapegoat'.

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 12, 2016, 05:16:20 AM
Of course,if it is a bit too long,you have to ask yourself (or the man in the mirror?! ;D) why do I want to play this again,so much?!! Maybe it isn't really a bit too long? Or maybe,there are just a few passages of note spinning here and there,but the majority of is good,or has that tingle factor,that gets you up on your metaphorical feet.......if you aren't standing up while listening,of course?!! I think the latter..............in my case,anyway!

Another one that,I suppose,goes on a bit too long perhaps,and apparently bores some people,is Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica. I love it! All those huge floor shaking,pulverising climaxes,the totally over the top,cinematic splendour of the orchestration and the wonderful tunes,just get me going. I usually end up conducting the orchestra. I feel quite exhilarated at the end of it.

For some strange reason the duration of Lloyd's third Piano concerto has brought to mind another 'block buster' for piano and orchestra. Villa Lobos' Choros No 11. No,I don't think there are any similarities in terms of sound or atmosphere;it's just the sheer scale of the Choros 11 and the fact that this is a work that,like Lloyd's third,possibly goes on a bit?! Again,like Lloyd's third,if it does go on a bit,why do I feel so good after listening to it?! I haven't been too impressed by some of VL's larger scale works,but the Choros No 11 is an exception. In fact,I think it is absolutely amazing,and in terms of the sheer audacity,scale,teeming invention and complexity of the orchestration,truly mind boggling!!

One last thought;and not entirely serious,I might add. (Yes,I think George Lloyd should have used one!! >:( ;D) With all this talk of comparisons between Lloyd and Khatchaturian,it struck me that probably the only thing really missing from Lloyd's third Piano concerto is a Flexatone! ??? ;D

Apologies,I nearly forgot. No,I'm afraid I haven't heard the 'Scapegoat'.
I've bought several CDs of music by Villa Lobos and apart from one poetic passage in Symphony 4 have been always disappointed (like with the music of Christopher Gunning or York Bowen or Nicholas Maw). Having said that I think I enjoyed one of the Choros pieces conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas. I must get Choros 11 however as two other people have also recommended it to me recently. I've always liked Respighi, notwithstanding his liking for Fascism but the Sinfonia Drammatica has always passed me by and I don't recall anything memorable about it - I would say much the same about the 'Alpine Symphony' by Richard Strauss (or almost all his other music for that matter). However, I love the cinematic 'Church Windows', Metamorphoseon and the Botticelli Pictures by Respighi and the Concerto Gregoriano (which when I first heard on the radio, assumed was by Gerald Finzi  ::)).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Interesting! I feel the same way about 'Church Windows' as you do about the Sinfonia Drammatica. Having said that,I remember looking through posts here and discovering to my dismay that fans of the Sinfonia Drammatica are few and far between even amongst admirers of Respighi. I even like his Concerto in modo misolidio,but not as much. I also think that Pizzetti's Canti della Stagione Alta is even better;and no one seems to like that!  :( ;D However,even I'll admit that his Metamorphoseon is vastly superior to the Symphony. It's a real 'sleeper' and deserves allot more exposure than it gets.
As to Villa Lobos. I remain unimpressed by virtually everything I have heard to date. They sound so exciting on paper and in reviews,but oh,dear! :( The tenth symphony was a particularly big disappointment! Choros No 11 is the one piece of music that has impressed me. I have the Ondine recording. Anyway,I should be discussing this in another column,shouldn't I?!!
In brief,then ;D..........I like Richard Strauss' operas;but only the quieter ones. Well,quiet for Richard Strauss! I like Also Sprach Zarathustra now and again,for some reason;but the others less so!! Khatchaturian gets accused of bombast;but his Piano concerto is a soothing balm in comparison. Korngold gets allot of flak in some quarters,but I actually find his orchestration far more refined and tasteful;and the textures are far more interesting. On the other hand,Richard Strauss' Wind Concertos are rather nice. I have the EMI Kempe cd and I was pleasantly surprised.
As to York Bowen!! ::) Well,each to his own,I say;although,imho,if you want to discover a once forgotten English pianist composer,from what I've listened to so far,Roger Sacheverell Coke is far more interesting.
Which brings me back to George Lloyd,who knows how to pull out all the stops with all the brass and percussion,when he really needs to,but balances this with a poetic sensibility and some genuinely moving,heartfelt music. In fact,I'm going to take advantage of that £3.50 credit I got,while I was offline,and send off Ye Olde cheque for that Lyrita set of No's 4,5 & 8 tomorrow! (The chaps got Lyrita on Special offer!)

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 12, 2016, 10:49:51 AM
Interesting! I feel the same way about 'Church Windows' as you do about the Sinfonia Drammatica. Having said that,I remember looking through posts here and discovering to my dismay that fans of the Sinfonia Drammatica are few and far between even amongst admirers of Respighi. I even like his Concerto in modo misolidio,but not as much. I also think that Pizzetti's Canti della Stagione Alta is even better;and no one seems to like that!  :( ;D However,even I'll admit that his Metamorphoseon is vastly superior to the Symphony. It's a real 'sleeper' and deserves allot more exposure than it gets.
As to Villa Lobos. I remain unimpressed by virtually everything I have heard to date. They sound so exciting on paper and in reviews,but oh,dear! :( The tenth symphony was a particularly big disappointment! Choros No 11 is the one piece of music that has impressed me. I have the Ondine recording. Anyway,I should be discussing this in another column,shouldn't I?!!
In brief,then ;D..........I like Richard Strauss' operas;but only the quieter ones. Well,quiet for Richard Strauss! I like Also Sprach Zarathustra now and again,for some reason;but the others less so!! Khatchaturian gets accused of bombast;but his Piano concerto is a soothing balm in comparison. Korngold gets allot of flak in some quarters,but I actually find his orchestration far more refined and tasteful;and the textures are far more interesting. On the other hand,Richard Strauss' Wind Concertos are rather nice. I have the EMI Kempe cd and I was pleasantly surprised.
As to York Bowen!! ::) Well,each to his own,I say;although,imho,if you want to discover a once forgotten English pianist composer,from what I've listened to so far,Roger Sacheverell Coke is far more interesting.
Which brings me back to George Lloyd,who knows how to pull out all the stops with all the brass and percussion,when he really needs to,but balances this with a poetic sensibility and some genuinely moving,heartfelt music. In fact,I'm going to take advantage of that £3.50 credit I got,while I was offline,and send off Ye Olde cheque for that Lyrita set of No's 4,5 & 8 tomorrow! (The chaps got Lyrita on Special offer!)
I must try Sinfonia Drammatica again as I like much Respighi. You'll really like the Lyrita George Lloyd set. The performance of No.8 was the first on LP and generated a lot of excitement in the pages of Gramophone. Also, I think that the performances are even better than the ones by the composer - good as they are. Must look out for Roger Sacherverell Cooke (which reminds me of a rather precious/effete joke: Question: 'Is there more than one Sitwell?', Answer: 'Yes, there are sacheverell' ::) 8)).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

#136
Play it full blast.Perhaps your neighbour will like it?!! ??? ;D Lyrita cd,duly ordered. Strange how sending a cheque for a cd set through the post seems so wierd. I actually,should get it cheaper than on Amazon or ebay!! I also bought a s/h copy of the Eleventh on cd for £3.79,post free,on ebay (not MusicMagpie,so we'll see!). Having a bit of a dispute with a German seller at the moment,who will be another one on my 'don't buy from list'!
I actually didn't get the Sacheverell-Coke joke at first. Then it got me. You have to say it quickly (in your mind)......perhaps with a posh accent and a glass of wine! Funny! ;D Imho his music is much better than York Bowen's. It's darker hewn and has more fibre! Hyperion are supposed to be recording a cd of his Piano concertos,or what exists of them. It will be interesting to see how his orchestral music compares to his instrumental output. His life would make a great movie in itself!
As to the Downes/Lloyd cd set. I have seen allot of enthusiastic reviews now;most of which seem to think that Downes has the edge. Yes,George Lloyd was quite a 'story' back in the 80s,I think? As a story,his brief early success,descent into obscurity and subsequent re-discovery almost rivalled that of a certain Havergal Brian,for a short while! No Guiness Book of Record breaking sized symphony,though!!

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 07:25:06 AM
Play it full blast.Perhaps your neighbour will like it?!! ??? ;D Lyrita cd,duly ordered. Strange how sending a cheque for a cd set through the post seems so wierd. I actually,should get it cheaper than on Amazon or ebay!! I also bought a s/h copy of the Eleventh on cd for £3.79,post free,on ebay (not MusicMagpie,so we'll see!). Having a bit of a dispute with a German seller at the moment,who will be another one on my 'don't buy from list'!
I actually didn't get the Sacheverell-Coke joke at first. Then it got me. You have to say it quickly (in your mind)......perhaps with a posh accent and a glass of wine! Funny! ;D Imho his music is much better than York Bowen's. It's darker hewn and has more fibre! Hyperion are supposed to be recording a cd of his Piano concertos,or what exists of them. It will be interesting to see how his orchestral music compares to his instrumental output. His life would make a great movie in itself!
As to the Downes/Lloyd cd set. I have seen allot of enthusiastic reviews now;most of which seem to think that Downes has the edge. Yes,George Lloyd was quite a 'story' back in the 80s,I think? As a story,his brief early success,descent into obscurity and subsequent re-discovery almost rivalled that of a certain Havergal Brian,for a short while! No Guiness Book of Record breaking sized symphony,though!!
Has Zoverstocks transformed into Musical Magpie?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Zoverstocks and estocks are now,officially,MusicMagpie! I remember a while back,when Zoverstocks were still fairly newish on Amazon,that I was never going to buy from them again,as I had to return so many cds. Although to be fair,I always got a polite email and a refund. They never made me wait. The last straw was a cd that looked like Torville and Dean had been skating on it! I decided to buy my cds from estocks,convinced that they were far superior,and feeling quite smug about my move! Of course,a van load,or so,of cds later,I realised they were the same firm!! Doh!! They'd got me!! :-[ ;D Again,to be fair,I've never had any problems with getting refunds for cds,or dvds, or waiting for emails.I've had some amazing bargains.......and for my wallets sake,I sometimes wish they weren't so cheap! :( ;D

I ordered the Lloyd cd set via a cheque sent by 'snail mail',as some people call it now! Classics Direct;which I used when my last pc went down,for good!! I still have some credit with them;and the Lyrita Lloyd set is on offer! Rob Barnett (I think) compares his Symphonies 4-8 with the those of Bax and Alwyn. I've never really got anywhere much with Alwyn,to date;but my shelves are groaning with Bax cds (weight wise!). How do you think George Lloyd measures up to the symphonies of these composers? Rob Barnett's comparison is interesting;but as a cycle,why not?!! Maybe,Bax has a visionary quality which runs deeper,and more of his own voice? But surely,if I listen enough,so has Lloyd?

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 08:30:41 AM
Zoverstocks and estocks are now,officially,MusicMagpie! I remember a while back,when Zoverstocks were still fairly newish on Amazon,that I was never going to buy from them again,as I had to return so many cds. Although to be fair,I always got a polite email and a refund. They never made me wait. The last straw was a cd that looked like Torville and Dean had been skating on it! I decided to buy my cds from estocks,convinced that they were far superior,and feeling quite smug about my move! Of course,a van load,or so,of cds later,I realised they were the same firm!! Doh!! They'd got me!! :-[ ;D Again,to be fair,I've never had any problems with getting refunds for cds,or dvds, or waiting for emails.I've had some amazing bargains.......and for my wallets sake,I sometimes wish they weren't so cheap! :( ;D

I ordered the Lloyd cd set via a cheque sent by 'snail mail',as some people call it now! Classics Direct;which I used when my last pc went down,for good!! I still have some credit with them;and the Lyrita Lloyd set is on offer! Rob Barnett (I think) compares his Symphonies 4-8 with the those of Bax and Alwyn. I've never really got anywhere much with Alwyn,to date;but my shelves are groaning with Bax cds (weight wise!). How do you think George Lloyd measures up to the symphonies of these composers? Rob Barnett's comparison is interesting;but as a cycle,why not?!! Maybe,Bax has a visionary quality which runs deeper,and more of his own voice? But surely,if I listen enough,so has Lloyd?
Thank you for that information John. I wondered why Zoverstocks had disappeared and MusicMagpie was everywhere. Yes, I know what you mean - today I ordered a Klemperer Bruckner Symphony 4 and a Rattle Mahler Symphony 10 for 0.19p each + postage. My wife has now confronted me about the 'obscene' amount of CDs in our study and about my 'affair' with my CD collection, suggesting that I need professional help, which is probably true (have just ordered a Klemperer Bruckner symphs 4-9 boxed set  >:D) now, back to Lloyd. I think that Bax's music is more 'Celtic' and 'Legendary' if you know what I mean. I love all the Bax symphonies but only some of those by Lloyd. However, I have the highest respect for Lloyd's symphonies 4 and 7 in particular and also like nos 8,11 and 12 and, of course the PC No.3 and the 'Scapegoat' concerto. If anything I think that Alwyn is closer to Bax than Lloyd. I do like all the Alwyn symphonies and consider him to be a fine composer. There is a great Barbirolli Alwyn CD on Dutton with symphony 1 and 2. No.1 is like film music but I find it exciting and moving. No.2 was Alwyn's own favourite and probably the greatest of them. His film score to 'Odd Man Out' is magnificent. He sent me a kindly response to my fan mail.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).