Author Topic: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation  (Read 2871 times)

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Online Brian

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2020, 06:31:04 PM »
Rand Paul isn't loony? On top of everything else I've read about him I heard someone say yesterday he was the sole "nay" vote on a bill making it illegal to point lasers into the cockpits of planes as they're coming in to land. Apparently he thought the issue should be decided state by state according to what each felt was best for them.
I meant only that he was not a member of the Trump camp specifically. I personally think he is a loony.

Offline milk

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2020, 06:39:09 PM »
I meant only that he was not a member of the Trump camp specifically. I personally think he is a loony.
He comes from a wacky family.

Offline Dowder

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2020, 08:04:05 PM »
Hmmm. Republican nominee in 2024 is a fun guessing game. Pence is out - he's a moron with no beliefs (except that women are terrifying), but more relevant to this game, he has no charisma whatsoever and nobody actually likes him. He's a Republican version of Al Gore or Michael Bloomberg.
I think he’s refreshing compared to Trump’s endless tweeting and insulting. If 45 wins re-election, Pence will have had eight years as VP, four as governor of Indy and 12 years in the house. Certainly capable of leading, a ton of experience to rely, etc. If by 2024 the economy is still strong he’s unstoppable.

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From the Trump loony fringe, Tom Cotton seems a very obvious leader of the pack. Rick Scott might try to sycophancy his way in. Maybe Dan Patrick or Ron DeSantis will think they have the goods. (Doubt it.)
None of them are loony. I’ll add Jim Jordan as a wishlist candidate. Ted Cruz will try again, too. I think he’d make a great prez, he just needs a facelift. 

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If the mainstream old GOP mounts a comeback, I'm sure we'll see Rubio, Rand Paul, Nikki Haley, Ben Sasse, and Mike Lee give it a go.
I could see Nikki as a VP candidate. Rand is like his daddy and has no chance but maybe a cabinet position at some point?

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Larry Hogan will run, attract tons of media attention for being the Nice Compromise Moderate that media types adore, and then will get 173 votes.
Hulk Hogan would get more votes. Which makes me surprised Jesse Ventura didn’t run. I think the younger millennials and Gen Z youth would like his style, rhetoric and support him. 
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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2020, 02:29:33 AM »
Rand Paul isn't loony? On top of everything else I've read about him I heard someone say yesterday he was the sole "nay" vote on a bill making it illegal to point lasers into the cockpits of planes as they're coming in to land. Apparently he thought the issue should be decided state by state according to what each felt was best for them.

That was (like Trump himself) monumentally tone-deaf
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Offline Todd

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2020, 04:27:54 AM »
He's a Republican version of Al Gore


There's no reason to be that mean to Mr Pence.  If Trump is not blown out, Pence will have the advantage of name recognition, and he will be well-connected with the Trump fundraisers and operations people.  His hands-on work in all 50 states will also be an aid.  It will certainly be enough to keep him in the running, and maybe enough to get him the nomination.  It's hard to see him winning the general.  If Trump is crushed in November, Pence's presidential ambitions are also crushed.

Cotton is the big disappointment.  Extremely smart and articulate, he is just too hawkish and daffy.  It's hard to see him get the nod unless he changes his public stances on some issues, which he may very well do.  There is something off with DeSantis.  I can't put my finger on it.  I don't really want to.  Same for Rick Scott.  Rubio needs to reinvent his public persona, much as he is working to change his economic outlook to something more moderately nationalist.  He's still too hawkish for me, but Americans don't really mind bombing other countries, so it may not matter.  Nikki Haley will check the diversity boxes to go up against the likely Dem VP choice this year, so that should not be underestimated.  Mike Lee is a Mormon, and just as Romney experienced religious bigotry (including on this forum), so would he.  He can't win, even with the vast political reach of his extended family.  Ben Sasse has positioned himself well overall, and he would be fun as a candidate if for no other reason than to watch his opponents try to label him stupid given all the letters he can put after his name.  He's like another Ted Cruz in that regard.  I wonder what the Sununu boys are doing?

On the Dem side, though he won't run in 2024, Gavin Newsom needs to give it a go in the 2020s.  We need to get back to that level of presidential hair at some point.
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Online Brian

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2020, 05:00:38 AM »
He comes from a wacky family.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Pence, because (a) I forgot the prior conversation already, and (b) I'm from Pence's hometown of Columbus, Indiana, and he does come from a wacky family, which may possibly have included my childhood torturer orthodontist, Dr. Ben Pence.

Cotton is the big disappointment.  Extremely smart and articulate, he is just too hawkish and daffy.  It's hard to see him get the nod unless he changes his public stances on some issues, which he may very well do.
I'm surprised you underestimate the Trump wing of the party's fondness for hawkish and daffy as character traits! But Cotton does seem more like Snidely Whiplash than the average politician allows himself to appear in public.

There is something off with DeSantis.  I can't put my finger on it.  I don't really want to.  Same for Rick Scott.
Who knows what "Florida Man" may be hiding...

Online Brian

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2020, 05:05:01 AM »
What are the odds, if Trump loses, that he runs again? Can you imagine him endorsing somebody and leaving it there? Watching Ben Sasse or whoever do rallies instead? I dunno.

(Note I'm not asking the odds he gets re-nominated.)

Offline Todd

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #147 on: June 09, 2020, 05:10:26 AM »
I'm surprised you underestimate the Trump wing of the party's fondness for hawkish and daffy as character traits!


Trump's appeal is tied to Trump himself.  No other politician in the contemporary world can get away with his behavior because none come with decades of a public presence like his. 


What are the odds, if Trump loses, that he runs again? Can you imagine him endorsing somebody and leaving it there? Watching Ben Sasse or whoever do rallies instead? I dunno.


It depends on the margin of defeat.  If he loses by 10% of the popular vote and in an Electoral landslide, even he would not stage a comeback.  If it's more like 2016 with the inverse result, he might try again.
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Offline JBS

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2020, 05:26:02 AM »

Who knows what "Florida Man" may be hiding...

Speaking as a Floridian...

DeSantis is marginally incompetent,  re-active instead of pro-active, and able to be as sensible on some issues as a Trumpnik politician can be.

Scott was CEO of a company that defrauded Medicare, is a doctrinally rigid Trumpnik, and mostly interested in keeping personal power for himself.  Of all those mentioned here he's the one who needs to be kept out of the White House most.

Rubio started out being sensible on immigration then completely caved. Not POTUS level material.

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Offline JBS

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #149 on: June 09, 2020, 05:30:29 AM »
I'll assume you all know Trump is now touting a theory that the 75 year old man in Buffalo deserved to have his head broken, and that he seems to have got the theory from a reporter on OANN who works partime for a Putin disinformation channel.

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2020, 05:43:23 AM »
What are the odds, if Trump loses, that he runs again?

Better odds he's in the slammer,
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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2020, 05:45:00 AM »
I'll assume you all know Trump is now touting a theory that the 75 year old man in Buffalo deserved to have his head broken, and that he seems to have got the theory from a reporter on OANN who works partime for a Putin disinformation channel.

And I doubt any of the Trumpkins here object to that theory.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #152 on: June 09, 2020, 06:10:13 AM »
How do guys like Pence walk their way through the cognitive dissonance? They can't get around dealing with scientists in a pandemic yet they don't actually believe the science.

     Pence is undemanding of personal junk belief. That's a common phenomenon.

     Psychology: How we form beliefs

Powerful support for Shermer's analysis emerges from accounts he gives of highly respected scientists who hold religious beliefs, such as US geneticist Francis Collins. Although religious scientists are few, they are an interesting phenomenon, exhibiting the impermeability of the internal barrier that allows simultaneous commitments to science and faith. This remark will be regarded as outrageous by believing scientists, who think that they are as rational in their temples as in their laboratories, but scarcely any of them would accept the challenge to mount a controlled experiment to test the major claims of their faith, such as asking the deity to regrow a severed limb for an accident victim.

     I met Shermer when a group of us went to a diner after a meeting. I gave him a little bit of a hard time over his attempt to be one of the nice atheists.
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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2020, 06:11:09 AM »
What are the odds, if Trump loses, that he runs again? Can you imagine him endorsing somebody and leaving it there? Watching Ben Sasse or whoever do rallies instead? I dunno.

If he loses, he'd be too old in 2024. I remember reading somewhere that Trump's plan for 2016 was to run, get a lot of publicity, not win, but use the publicity to launch his own cable channel. I suspect he'd do that.

I can imagine a scenario where Trump looses to Biden, even by a substantial margin, but claims it was all fraud, refuses to concede, and Biden is inaugurated on the west portico of the Capital while refuses to attend the ceremony and stews in the Oval Office, incessantly texting.

I'm bracing myself for the prospect of Trump's dim witted offspring running for President.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 07:04:49 AM by Baron Scarpia »

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2020, 06:37:46 AM »
Biden would let him stew in the bunker.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2020, 08:00:31 AM »

     Yet Another Week of Trump Failing to Be an Actual Authoritarian

     Trump tries to do or be many things. One is to be the kind of despot he admires. He can't quite do it, and the failure is party incompetence and part sheer failure of nerve. Both are evident in many of his behaviors.

The country has seen this feckless command over the executive branch before, in a different context. The Mueller report is stuffed full of examples of Trump ordering aides and officials to take actions that range from corrosive to downright illegal and those people either refusing or simply not bothering to carry out his orders. Trump couldn’t get his people to drum up a baseless investigation of Hillary Clinton, fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller, or falsify evidence to cover up Trump’s own wrongdoing. The result was a portrait of a president both menacing in intent and buffoonishly ineffective at accomplishing the menace.

     But this is also true.

     Trump, they write elsewhere, can't perform up to his despotic aspirations because being a dictator is hard work, and Trump never does anything that's hard for him. An earlier article by them says:

The man who declared “I alone can fix it” cannot now declare himself helpless. So Trump needs the optics of authoritarian assertiveness without any actual responsibility for deciding on the exception. He wants both the work and the blame to go to the governors. No one governor can get too much credit, after all, since the problem is national. But the disaster in New York can be Cuomo’s responsibility. Problems in Detroit can be blamed on “that woman from Michigan,” to use Trump’s appellation for the state’s governor.

As he put in a tweet on Sunday, “Governors, get your states testing programs & apparatus perfected. Be ready, big things are happening. No excuses! The Federal Government is there to help. We are testing more than any country in the World. Also, gear up with Face Masks!”

The result is rhetorical authoritarianism married with a striking unwillingness to use federal authority robustly.


    Hamilton wrote about "energy in the executive". Trump fakes it.
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Re: 2020, Biden Vs Trump: The Fate of a Nation
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2020, 09:22:18 AM »
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