Not all it's cracked up to be

Started by Madiel, November 04, 2020, 02:57:59 PM

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Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on November 05, 2020, 03:06:30 PM
I also benefit from huge technological innovations in Scotland in the 19th century.

Yes but you'd have benefitted from them even if Australia had been under Japanese hegemony ever since WWII. Technology and its use are independent of any specific political philosophy or regime. Freedom, otoh, is not. The Socialist Republic of Romania did not lack cars, trains or factories, but political, economical and personal freedom.

QuoteYou're missing the point utterly.

So far you made two points: that from your perspective USA is a fucked up place that should best be avoided, and that USA is nowhere near no.1 on most internationally created measures. The former is a matter of personal preference and as such can't be opposed; the latter I already qualified as true.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

#41
No, the current point is that the proposition that the USA saved the world at some point in the past is completely irrelevant to the question of what state the USA is currently in.

THAT'S the point I've made several times and which you keep ignoring in your attempt to say how wonderful America is. Your evidence for the wonderfulness of America is something that America did a long time ago. Which is not in any way evidence for the current wonderfulness of America.

Your attempts to imply "oh, you benefit now from the past wonderfulness of America, therefore this negates the proposition that America is not currently wonderful" just make no sense whatsoever.

Hell, it even flies in the face of "Make America Great Again". Either way, it's all a focus on America's past glories. I don't have to argue with you about America's past glories in order to say that America today is in some respects seriously fucked up.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on November 06, 2020, 02:53:11 AM
No, the current point is that the proposition that the USA saved the world at some point in the past is completely irrelevant to the question of what state the USA is currently in.

THAT'S the point I've made several times and which you keep ignoring in your attempt to say how wonderful America is. Your evidence for the wonderfulness of America is something that America did a long time ago. Which is not in any way evidence for the current wonderfulness of America.

Your attempts to imply "oh, you benefit now from the past wonderfulness of America, therefore this negates the proposition that America is not currently wonderful" just make no sense whatsoever.

I never claimed America is currently wonderful. I didn't even claim that America was wonderful at the time they saved the Western world. You're putting words in my mouth. Therefore I am really over and out.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on November 06, 2020, 02:56:24 AM
I didn't even claim that America was wonderful at the time they saved the Western world.

::)

Well thank you for continuing the conversation utterly needlessly for as long as you did after I expressed the view that it should end. You managed to create a whole new thread.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on November 06, 2020, 03:08:06 AM
You managed to create a whole new thread.

I beg your pardon? It says "started by Madiel".  >:D  :P

Seriously now, it's Gurn who created this thread. As far as I'm concerned, he can lock it or even delete it altogether.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Finally something we can agree on.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

krummholz

Quote from: "Harry" on November 05, 2020, 06:35:55 AM
He can not help himself for being what he is, and feeling as he does. I for one accepted what he is, and why he has such trouble with himself and the rest of the world. I think instead of admonishing him we rather should show compassion for what befalls him. His life must be a heavy burden to carry.

+1 to this.

krummholz

Quote from: 71 dB on November 05, 2020, 04:16:28 PM
Ironically I feel the less chaos and ugliness in the World, the better I can enjoy classical music and other arts, but yes, music and art can definitely help.

I used to feel that way too. Today I feel I need classical music to keep me grounded in the face of the insanity all around me in my country. I am not even attracted any more to expressionism and music that reflects fragile emotional states. My own music is more rational and grounded, too... I wrote Fugal Variations largely in reaction to the darkness that surrounds me in the real world.

I feel that music and art can help keep us sane, and perhaps motivated to do good work, maybe especially in times like these. In any case, Poju, I hope you are able to find your way back to full employment. Being unemployed has always been one of my greatest fears... though of course, here in the USA our safety net is much weaker than in your country. It's still a most depressing and undesirable state, though.

Kind regards from afar.