Author Topic: USA Politics  (Read 47005 times)

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Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2020, 03:17:52 PM »
One problem with policing is the "I've got your back" mentality, which means that good officers have no choice but to look the other way when rogue officers act out. I read (somewhere) about a Buffalo police officer reported brutality by a fellow officer. The result was the the officer who reported the behavior was fired and her pension was denied. The rogue officer suffered no consequences. In circumstances like this corruption may be impossible to root out.
I think in most professions if you snitch you suffer the consequences.

Quote
The city of Camden New Jersey had this problem. They fired their entire police department and started a new police department from scratch. They still have major problems in the city of Camden, but at least the police department is not one of them.
Apparently it was the union, guaranteeing the average officer a salary of $150,000. When they started a fresh, the average salary was about $100,000 and the city could hire more officers. More stringent requirements for hiring and periodic evaluations were also done. 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/camden-didnt-defund-the-police/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=first
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 03:19:27 PM by Dowder »
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2020, 03:27:38 PM »

There are many well informed posts by a few posters in other parts of the forum that are well worth reading.

As to "discussions" about criminology, they seem highly unlikely on this forum.  I think it is safe to say that all posters on this forum would agree that a reduction in the use of lethal force by the police would be a good thing.  Similarly, it is reasonable to surmise that all or almost all people would like to see a reduction in the use of other forms of extreme violence by the police, and at least some scaling back of the use of military tactics and equipment by the police.  Excessive reliance on violent coercive power by the state is bad and antithetical to liberty as well as justice.  What is unlikely to occur on this forum, based on history, is a reliance on factual data and posts that even attempt to be genuine or meaningful, as was laid out in the opening post.  Peruse the posts to date if you doubt that.
No offense taken, big guy.  :)  I’m learning to control my stream of consciousness and not let the barking dog out of the yard, if only because a moderator will likely delete my post.  :-X
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2020, 03:29:53 PM »
I do wonder if an enlightening and factual discussion of criminology can occur on GMG.

Exactly the sort of pointless snark I somehow thought we could avoid.

re links and quotes: I've posted many in my time, some with comments, many more without. Usually the intention, or one intention, was to offer it as the start of a discussion, which is often what happened. But I'm not sure I posted them in place of an argument, and I certainly don't remember any "dueling links" form of non-conversation. But whatever, being less lazy about my posting will be good for me.

So this happened:

Trump campaign demands CNN retract poll showing big Biden lead

"President Trump's reelection campaign has sent a cease and desist letter to CNN President Jeff Zucker demanding that the network retract its recent poll showing Trump trailing Democratic presidential rival Joe Biden by 14 points.

The demand from the campaign was quickly rejected by CNN spokesman Matt Dornic and the network's general counsel David Vigilante on Wednesday.

"We stand by our poll," Dornic said in a story from CNN reporting on the Trump campaign's demand.

Trump and his campaign have lashed out over the CNN poll, which was conducted by SSRS and released earlier this week. The survey showed Trump trailing the former vice president by a 55 percent to 41 percent margin among registered voters.

"It's a stunt and a phony poll to cause voter suppression, stifle momentum and enthusiasm for the President, and present a false view generally of the actual support across America for the President," reads the letter signed by Trump 2020 senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis and the campaign's chief operating officer, Michael Glassner.

The letter, which cites Trump pollster John McLaughlin, also demands a "full, fair, and conspicuous retraction, apology, and clarification to correct its misleading conclusions" while also claiming that the poll is "designed to mislead American voters through a biased questionnaire and skewed sampling."[...]

Comments? Well, two to start: firstly, if they were trying to "suppress the vote" they'd be saying that Trump is waaay ahead and there's no reason to feel they need to go vote because its such a done deal that he's getting reelected, this on the other hand will make them redouble their efforts. Secondly, if a few days ago I suggested that Trump is capable of sending a cease and desist order for a poll he didn't like the Trumpist-adjacent would have cried "preposterous", and, oh yes, "Trump Derangement Syndrome!!"

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2020, 03:40:10 PM »
I see you’re back at it again, Simon. :-\ Glutton for punishment or do you honestly feel it’ll be different this time around than when you left the forum the last time?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 03:42:50 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2020, 03:50:42 PM »
I see you’re back at it again, Simon. :-\ Glutton for punishment or do you honestly feel it’ll be different this time around than when you left the forum the last time?

Well. thanks for the "undecided" emoji. Stop, your're making me blush. Will it be different? That's the experiment, isn't it?

Any thoughts on the post above about Trump sending a cease and desist order for a poll he didn't like?

Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2020, 04:58:23 PM »
Trump has announced that he will have his first rally in Tulsa next week on June 19.

This, coming on top of his tweet today announcing that the army bases named after Confederate generals will not be renamed, has left  people wondering if he's truly ignorant or really does want to stick his  thumb in the eye of  America's  blacks.

If the date and place don't ring a bell, google Juneteenth and Black  Wall Street.

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2020, 05:03:25 PM »
Well. thanks for the "undecided" emoji. Stop, your're making me blush. Will it be different? That's the experiment, isn't it?

Any thoughts on the post above about Trump sending a cease and desist order for a poll he didn't like?

To be honest, I’m sick and tired of politics and talking about them. I’ve pretty much quit watching the news, because it’s depressing and has in no way benefited my own life. Anyway, I believe a person should live their own lives and that there are evil people out there that will do you harm no matter what the consequences are, but since there has been man, there has been evil. Nothing will ever change. That’s all I’m going to say.
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2020, 05:07:15 PM »
Trump has announced that he will have his first rally in Tulsa next week on June 19.

This, coming on top of his tweet today announcing that the army bases named after Confederate generals will not be renamed, has left  people wondering if he's truly ignorant or really does want to stick his  thumb in the eye of  America's  blacks.

If the date and place don't ring a bell, google Juneteenth and Black  Wall Street.


Trump has used race-baiting as one of his primary political tools since he came down the escalator.  Before, even.  He thinks it's a winner.  It helped in 2016.  It won't be as effective this time around.  Massive protests in the streets are occasionally correlated with party changes in the White House (eg, 1968, 1992).
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Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2020, 05:53:56 PM »

Trump has used race-baiting as one of his primary political tools since he came down the escalator.  Before, even.  He thinks it's a winner.  It helped in 2016.  It won't be as effective this time around.  Massive protests in the streets are occasionally correlated with party changes in the White House (eg, 1968, 1992).
What was also unique to ‘68 and ‘92? Third party candidates who took disgruntled voters away. Wallace and Perot changed the outcome of those presidential races. No such candidate this year to siphon off voters.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2020, 06:51:32 PM »
What was also unique to ‘68 and ‘92? Third party candidates who took disgruntled voters away. Wallace and Perot changed the outcome of those presidential races. No such candidate this year to siphon off voters.


Correct.  That means no one to siphon voters from Biden.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2020, 07:23:12 PM »

Correct.  That means no one to siphon voters from Biden.

Unless there is chaos within the DP, in which the critical swing voters can be brought back to 45 or enough of the far left voters stay at home election night.

Plenty of time left to catch up. I doubt Trump is down by 14 points but the last few months have been brutal to his presidency and since it happened under his watch many will blame him for it. If we can get a full economic rebound by the end of summer, social stability and the NFL by fall things won’t be so bleak for the president.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:27:16 PM by Dowder »
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2020, 03:53:23 AM »
If we can get a full economic rebound by the end of summer


There is a 0% probability of that occurring.  The Fed is projecting 9.3% U3 at end of year, with a massive 6.5% drop in GDP.  Slick Willy's admonition holds today as it did in '92.
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Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2020, 03:57:03 AM »
Although it is already well established that the public health is not a priority for Trump: "Trump announces rallies in states where new infections are surging."

"Texas, Arkansas, South Carolina, Nevada, Arizona, North Carolina, Oregon, Florida and Utah all set new highs in seven-day rolling case averages Wednesday, according to Post data.
Montana, Arkansas, Utah, Arizona and Texas have all seen coronavirus hospitalizations rise by at least 35 percent in the weeks since Memorial Day."
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 03:59:24 AM by k a rl h e nn i ng »
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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2020, 04:05:25 AM »
Of course, President Disinformation is pretending that we are "post-coronavirus" the presidential idiocy is criminal and lethal.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2020, 05:00:33 AM »
Although it is already well established that the public health is not a priority for Trump: "Trump announces rallies in states where new infections are surging."

"Texas, Arkansas, South Carolina, Nevada, Arizona, North Carolina, Oregon, Florida and Utah all set new highs in seven-day rolling case averages Wednesday, according to Post data.
Montana, Arkansas, Utah, Arizona and Texas have all seen coronavirus hospitalizations rise by at least 35 percent in the weeks since Memorial Day."
Yeah, we all know that the spike occurred from the protestors, who were told that it was ok to risk spreading Covid-19 because of “justice for George Floyd.”

Not excusing Trump’s desire for rallies (he clearly needs them to drum up support) but the other side already justified themselves when it came to putting others at risk.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Dowder

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2020, 05:09:36 AM »

There is a 0% probability of that occurring.  The Fed is projecting 9.3% U3 at end of year, with a massive 6.5% drop in GDP.  Slick Willy's admonition holds today as it did in '92.
I know, but unlike ‘92 other countries are facing contraction due to Covid-19, so people understand there’s an extraordinary reason for the unemployment and not something triggered by bad or reckless policies by Trump. It might be a long shot but any kind of meaningful recovery will obviously help 45’s chances. If the election were held today he would lose but there is still five months left until the vote happens and Biden will have to engage more, which will help, imo.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2020, 05:30:24 AM »
I know, but unlike ‘92 other countries are facing contraction due to Covid-19, so people understand there’s an extraordinary reason for the unemployment and not something triggered by bad or reckless policies by Trump.


Voters understood that the '07-'08 recession was not caused by Bush and the Republican Party, that the '90-'91 recession was not caused by a different Bush, that the '80 recession was not caused by Carter, and so on.  The top guy takes too much credit for good times, and takes too much blame for bad times.  It comes with the job.  The economy alone will sink Trump.  Combine that with his very poor response to the public health aspects of Covid, which cannot outweigh his very strong economic response to the crisis, and the ineffectiveness of his race-baiting this time around, and he's facing a triple whammy.  Americans can elect another doddering old man who says racist things to be president.  If Super-Creepy 46 selects a woman of color as his veep, voters can assuage their consciences by voting for a ticket that looks like America, to use vapid political parlance.
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Offline geralmar

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2020, 05:59:50 AM »


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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2020, 06:03:28 AM »
(* chortle *)
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Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2020, 06:47:13 AM »

     Federal Arrests Show No Sign that Antifa Plotted Protests

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but the majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

Even so, Attorney General William P. Barr has blamed antifa for orchestrating the mass protests, which broke out in cities and towns across the country following the death in police custody of George Floyd. “There is clearly some high degree of organization involved at some of these events and coordinated tactics that we are seeing,” Mr. Barr said. “Some of it relates to antifa, some of it relates to groups that act very much like antifa.”


     Barr does the "usual suspects" thing blatantly. Facts, enlightenment and criminology are absent.

     Antifa members are not shy. If they are involved they will let you know. They want people to know they are fighting fascism.

     Antifa is organized at the local level. There's no formal national leadership.

     Barr opines that mass protests are organized by antifa. That fails completely. Antifa members might participate, and probably do.

     It remains to be determined how the protests were organized and how centralized the process was.

     
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