Author Topic: USA Politics  (Read 42472 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2980 on: September 16, 2020, 11:09:50 AM »
Not an inking phase for all of science, but for small parts of it, yes.

Before the actual images of a black hole were taken, we just had sketches. Actually getting a photo of it is the inking. And seeing someone get sucked into it would be the coloring.  :P

Science has been confirming predictions of mr. Einstein made ~100 years ago. Scientific mind can be quite mighty at it's best.
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Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2981 on: September 16, 2020, 11:11:18 AM »
     There is no inking phase. We won't run out of science or the discovery of error until the last discoverer is dead.

     I once read a novel about an interplanetary civilization after science died. They had knowledge of space travel and atomic weapons kept by a priesthood. Oddly, it's said the plot was derived from I, Claudius by Robert Graves.

     

Gladiator was a near plagiarism of I Claudius.

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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2982 on: September 16, 2020, 11:14:37 AM »

Since we have no information on how the universe began, there is only speculation.

I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that the universe had a beginning. It seems an odd assumption.

Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2983 on: September 16, 2020, 11:20:22 AM »
If you find one of your shoe bitten, you don't have 100 % proof of whether it was your friend or your dog, but it's pretty logical to think it was your dog. It's beyond speculation. Why? Because your dog biting our shoe makes much more sense.
Sure, it's logical, and the most likely conclusion.

But what I object to is this thought process which sometimes feeds people's egos, which leads to a "you don't believe, how ignorant" attitude. I think you can only realize the most likely possibilities and be on board with that, and just leave it at that. Any extra enthusiasm about it is undeserved.

Things that aren't observed first-hand can always be something that you hadn't considered. If the shoes were left outside by the door, it could have been someone else's dog. Or even some entirely different animal (at my old house years ago we had on separate occasions a turtle and a ferret trying to get inside our front door, and we kept the ferret for a day and played with it).

If the shoes were left inside, then it could be a rat. There's always something that one hasn't considered.




I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that the universe had a beginning. It seems an odd assumption.
It's probably all a simulation, but meh, I don't care what others believe.
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Offline krummholz

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2984 on: September 16, 2020, 12:08:13 PM »
"They would have died anyway. They had other illnesses" is a bit Trumpian excuse. Yes, some of them certainly would have died without Covid-19, but we can compare the epidemic and corona deaths and we see correlation.

Oooh, I think you missed my point! Not that they would have died anyway WITHOUT covid, but that they would have died anyway FROM covid if Trump had not lied about the seriousness of the threat. There's a great editorial in AAAS Science Magazine about Trump's lies re: COVID-19. Since it's about the pandemic, I don't think it's paywalled.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/11/science.abe7391?fbclid=IwAR0spUaiRAbVuCVqog7JPhqQwjDCQz9J6Itspz2j1N0mM95NNUoUETuzRKg

Quote
Yes, Biden is definitely "better". Whether he is "good" is another thing. He just talked about increasing the military budget. Anyone here for that? No?

I'm not sure whether the budget needs increasing, but we certainly need a president who knows how to be a leader of a major power, and sometimes that means calling out the military. I think Biden will do fine in that regard with all his experience in government, and especially as VP. I am more concerned about his age and the very real possibility that he will not last 4 full years. Harris is good too, especially compared with Trump, but she does not have his experience in foreign affairs and will be facing a VERY steep learning curve.

Offline krummholz

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2985 on: September 16, 2020, 12:13:49 PM »
I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that the universe had a beginning. It seems an odd assumption.

Depends on how you define "the Universe". The Universe as we know it is certainly expanding in such a way that you can extrapolate back and say that at one time it MIGHT have been very small, with all the matter and energy currently in existence concentrated in a "primeval atom" (selon Fr. Lemaitre). That theory makes a prediction: the Cosmic Microwave Background, which has been detected and studied very closely.

We can't say anything about what happened before the Big Bang. But we are confident that it happened, and if you define the Universe as everything that the Big Bang evolved into, then the Universe had a beginning.

It's not as circular as it sounds. ;)

Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2986 on: September 16, 2020, 01:14:16 PM »
I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that the universe had a beginning. It seems an odd assumption.

     I agree. Just because things that are part of the whole can be said to have beginnings doesn't mean the whole has one. Or, is the North Pole on the edge of something because there is nothing north of it?  Maybe we need a context, like "In the beginning there was the Bird, and the Bird is the Word", or something like that.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2987 on: September 16, 2020, 01:21:37 PM »


We can't say anything about what happened before the Big Bang. But we are confident that it happened, and if you define the Universe as everything that the Big Bang evolved into, then the Universe had a beginning.



     I think you could say the Big Bang began the process we can now observe, but I don't think you can say with equal confidence that there was a "before" which was also a "nothing".
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2988 on: September 16, 2020, 02:30:59 PM »
I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that the universe had a beginning. It seems an odd assumption.

This conclusion comes from the fact that the universe is expanding based on observations and if something is expanding it must have been a "point" which is here called "beginning" at some point in the past, approximately 13.7 billion years ago.
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Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2989 on: September 16, 2020, 02:40:58 PM »
It's  better to say the Big Bang is the point beyond which our knowledge will never go.  There are theories that a universe collapsed into the "primeval atom" and that the expansion we call the Big Bang was merely the point where the prior collapse reached maximum density and then exploded outward. Those theories often predict that the current universe will reach a point of maximum expansion and then collapse back into itself until we reach the point where a new Big Bang occurs and we start the whole thing all over again.

There is another point to make: what we call time itself is a property of the universe and started with the Big Bang like the rest of the universe. So technically there was nothing before the Big Bang. 

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Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2990 on: September 16, 2020, 02:57:31 PM »
It's  better to say the Big Bang is the point beyond which our knowledge will never go.  There are theories that a universe collapsed into the "primeval atom" and that the expansion we call the Big Bang So technically there was nothing before the Big Bang. 

     I don't see how nothing can be before time, but then I don't think nothing can be, period. The problem is we are trying to use language designed for at least possible imaginable experience and stretching beyond its useful range. One possibility is to consider a no boundary Universe.

“Asking what came before the Big Bang is meaningless, according to the no-boundary proposal, because there is no notion of time available to refer to,” Hawking said in another lecture at the Pontifical Academy in 2016, a year and a half before his death. “It would be like asking what lies south of the South Pole.”
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Online milk

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2991 on: September 16, 2020, 03:23:31 PM »
Depends on how you define "the Universe". The Universe as we know it is certainly expanding in such a way that you can extrapolate back and say that at one time it MIGHT have been very small, with all the matter and energy currently in existence concentrated in a "primeval atom" (selon Fr. Lemaitre). That theory makes a prediction: the Cosmic Microwave Background, which has been detected and studied very closely.

We can't say anything about what happened before the Big Bang. But we are confident that it happened, and if you define the Universe as everything that the Big Bang evolved into, then the Universe had a beginning.

It's not as circular as it sounds. ;)
I don’t believe any physicist claims everything, all possibility, began with the Big Bang. It depends on the definition of universe. Is it what we are measuring, or any possibility? There are hypotheses like the multiverse. We know something about the universe in which we are only.

Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2992 on: September 16, 2020, 03:32:21 PM »

     Oh no, I took a "linguistic turn"! Here come the cops.

Put that poker down!
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Online SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2993 on: September 16, 2020, 03:40:48 PM »
     I agree. Just because things that are part of the whole can be said to have beginnings doesn't mean the whole has one. Or, is the North Pole on the edge of something because there is nothing north of it?  Maybe we need a context, like "In the beginning there was the Bird, and the Bird is the Word", or something like that.

nice

Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2994 on: September 16, 2020, 03:58:56 PM »
     I don't see how nothing can be before time, but then I don't think nothing can be, period. The problem is we are trying to use language designed for at least possible imaginable experience and stretching beyond its useful range. One possibility is to consider a no boundary Universe.

“Asking what came before the Big Bang is meaningless, according to the no-boundary proposal, because there is no notion of time available to refer to,” Hawking said in another lecture at the Pontifical Academy in 2016, a year and a half before his death. “It would be like asking what lies south of the South Pole.”

I agree with Hawking's point, but I don't think his analogy really catches it.

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Offline drogulus

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« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 06:30:01 PM by drogulus »
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Offline arpeggio

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2996 on: September 16, 2020, 07:27:05 PM »
     There is no inking phase. We won't run out of science or the discovery of error until the last discoverer is dead.

     I once read a novel about an interplanetary civilization after science died. They had knowledge of space travel and atomic weapons kept by a priesthood. Oddly, it's said the plot was derived from I, Claudius by Robert Graves.

     

If my recollection is correct I think the civilization of the Dune Saga banned computers or AI.

Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2997 on: September 16, 2020, 08:55:09 PM »
If my recollection is correct I think the civilization of the Dune Saga banned computers or AI.

     Yes, instead they had a drug that increased life spans, turned people into super calculators and spawned mutations that had the power to warp space and, incidentally, would be right at home with GMG Big Brains.
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Offline arpeggio

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2998 on: September 16, 2020, 11:26:40 PM »
At least this "GMG Big Brain" believes the Coronavirus and evolution is real.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics
« Reply #2999 on: Today at 02:31:40 AM »
     I don't see how nothing can be before time, but then I don't think nothing can be, period. The problem is we are trying to use language designed for at least possible imaginable experience and stretching beyond its useful range. One possibility is to consider a no boundary Universe.

“Asking what came before the Big Bang is meaningless, according to the no-boundary proposal, because there is no notion of time available to refer to,” Hawking said in another lecture at the Pontifical Academy in 2016, a year and a half before his death. “It would be like asking what lies south of the South Pole.”

The question can be interpreted as "What is outside our universe?", at least that's how I interpret it.

If you keep walking "past" the South pole you start to walk back to North, but what if you took a rocket at the pole? You would change the direction of your movement 90° and the rocket would take you to space "south" of South pole! So, maybe you need to take a "90° turn" at the big bang to get what was "before = outside" our spacetime? What is this 90° turn? I believe it's interchanging time and space and you know what? Black holes do that by bending spacetime so much space becomes time and vice versa! So our time could be the space inside a black hole in our mother universe and our space could be the time of our mother universe inside the black hole. I can be totally wrong, but this makes sense to my puny brain and if I am wrong I want to be wrong in a cool way and for me this is so cool!  0:)
« Last Edit: Today at 02:34:15 AM by 71 dB »
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