Beethoven Symphonies HIP

[Holden]

Brüggen 1 re-released in Europe last summer ... and this autumn elsewhere:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Orchestra-Century-Ludwig-Br%C3%BCggen/dp/B00KNTLZ5W/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Orchestra-Century-Ludwig-Br%C3%BCggen/dp/B00KNTLZ5W/?tag=goodmusicguideco

I am waiting for Spotify to put this on their system so I can make a decision as to whether I should buy it.

[Peter Power Pop]

Brüggen 1 re-released in Europe last summer ... and this autumn elsewhere:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Orchestra-Century-Ludwig-Br%C3%BCggen/dp/B00KNTLZ5W/?tag=goodmusicguid-21

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Orchestra-Century-Ludwig-Br%C3%BCggen/dp/B00KNTLZ5W/?tag=goodmusicguideco

I am waiting for Spotify to put this on their system so I can make a decision as to whether I should buy it.

In the meantime, here are some excerpts on YouTube:


Symphony No. 6 in F major, Op. 68 "Pastoral"
Orchestra of the 18th Cerntury / Frans Brüggen (1995)
I. Erwachen heiterer Empfindungen bei der Ankunft auf dem Lande (Awakening of cheerful feelings upon arrival in the countryside): Allegro ma non troppo
http://www.youtube.com/v/v50XkRrp5x8

II. Szene am Bach (Scene by the brook): Andante molto mosso
http://www.youtube.com/v/C3wJzecTJQY

III. Lustiges Zusammensein der Landleute (Merry gathering of country folk): Allegro
http://www.youtube.com/v/yvBz4YQUsKA

IV. Gewitter, Sturm (Thunder. Storm): Allegro
http://www.youtube.com/v/ANRCCBtNYE4

V. Hirtengesang. Frohe und dankbare Gefühle nach dem Sturm (Shepherd's song; cheerful and thankful feelings after the storm): Allegretto
http://www.youtube.com/v/o2_n3i17s1U




Symphony No. 7 in A major, Op. 92
Orchestra of the 18th Cerntury / Frans Brüggen (1995)
http://www.youtube.com/v/L9wcQDuOuhY&list=PL72DECAAEAF813742




Symphony No. 8 in F major, Op. 93
Orchestra of the 18th Cerntury / Frans Brüggen (1995)
I. Allegro vivace e con brio
http://www.youtube.com/v/F6-NwOOCASs

II. Allegretto scherzando;
III. Tempo di Menuetto;
IV. Allegro vivace
http://www.youtube.com/v/XiUCjC6dKH4




Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 "Choral"
Orchestra of the 18th Cerntury / Frans Brüggen (1995)
I. Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sdh2B-p_pTI

II. Scherzo: Molto vivace - Presto
http://www.youtube.com/v/ML3bCwE-650

III. Adagio molto e cantabile - Andante moderato - Tempo primo - Andante moderato - Adagio - Lo stesso tempo
http://www.youtube.com/v/FSLaw-Ztfws

IV. (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/v/UlZik8_3bR0

IV. (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/v/uk1_BC0j110

[Holden]

I'm in luck, they've just been added but thank you for your post.

[Peter Power Pop]

I'm in luck, they've just been added ...

Excellent.

(I just found it: Beethoven Symphonies / Frans Brüggen on Spotify.)

... but thank you for your post.

No problem.

[eoghan]

Sorry to bump two Beethoven symphonies threads in relatively quick succession but...it's Beethoven.

Last night I spent a frustrating-but-enjoyable (in equal measures) few hours listening to 10 HIP (what constitutes HIP is an argument which utterly bores me so I won't get into it) recordings of the Seventh and made a not-entirely-successful effort and a blind test, movement by movement by using shuffled Spotify playlists. It wasn't entirely blind and therefore wasn't entirely scientific, so rather than give scores on the doors I'll roughly group them how I scored them. A note on my general preferences - I can handle hyper-HIP is Savall's timpani-fest but with something as perfect as the Seventh I find that often just playing it pretty straight and letting the music do the talking does the trick, and I'm not dogmatic about anything.

Top tier: Gardiner/ORR (studio), Gardiner/ORR (live at Carnegie Hall), Weil/Tafelmusik, Bruggen/O18C

Gardiner (studio): a brisk start but the Vivace is absolutely spot on - brimming with energy and emotion. This is easily my favourite version of the first movement. Second movement has exquisite phrasing and a a lovely second subject, with beautiful woodwind playing. Third movement has a majestic Trio section and the transition back to the main subject is spot on. Plenty of excitement. Finale gets going straight away and although few risks are taken and it doesn't really go into orbit but the movement works well. Superb recording quality. Highly recommended.

Gardiner (live): Terrific energy in the first movement (like the studio recording). The slow movement is lush and very grand. Listener's attention is kept on board with some nice phrasing. (Overall, most of the interpretations of this movement are pretty straightforward: let the music do the talking). The Scherzo makes an instant statement - loads of energy and humour - borderline OTT but just stays on the right side. There's nothing outrageously idiosyncratic in the finale, but it gets straight to the point and the balance and musicality are spot on. Recording is a touch woolly but nothing terrible (not once did I say "aha! That must be the live recording"). Whisper it, but this might just be the best of the whole lot.

Weil: First movement is somewhat restrained but beautifully played and you can tell a lot of thought has gone into it. NEver comes out of third gear but it subtly dances without being histrionic. The Allegretto is stunning although it does feel somewhat like Couperin. But the string sounds are to die for. The Scherzo is a little oblique but it has a lovely clean sound, wonderful strings, perhaps a little Mozart-like and lightweight overall. The finale goes off at a gallop and could be cleaner in the faster sections, lacks a little air. It's solid and builds up massively towards the end. Overall Weil's version is very, very good.

Bruggen: first movement is rather ponderous and heavy, a bit humourless but the transition from intro to the main subject is stunning - time stands still. Vivace is a little slow and it doesn't dance particularly but despite its seriousness this is really very good. The allegretto I don't think I was listening all that carefully as I've only noted "recording is a little thin" and given it 3.5/5 which is average. Third movement is full of dancing with lots of crisp energy. Some nice combinations of textures with a bit of spice and aggression from time to time but nothing overdone. One of the best scherzos. The last movement really motors and although it feels a touch rushed, it has loads of intensity and grabs your attention and sweeps you along. Probably the best finale, although I found the way it slows up for the last couple of notes frustrating.

Middle tier: Savall, Harnoncourt, Herreweghe

Savall: as I posted in the other thread, I love Savall's Beethoven set like rice but with the Seventh my overall impression is that he's just trying a bit too hard. After a slow, serious start, the Vivace has plenty of drama but it feels a little forced. The Allegretto really works: solid and conservative like most of the other recordings, but with a lot of thought going into it and it pays off. The Scherzo swings nicely; the trio section is a little rapid for my tastes, sounds grand but too Haydnesque for me. The finale tries far too hard, it dances but the dancing is 18th century court dancing rather than a "we've just won the World Cup" jamboree. Every note is discernible but this is one where you within seconds you know it's Savall - I wish he would just let the roof come off and let things flow. A good alternative version, but not one for every day.

Harnoncourt: a rather measured intro leads into a sprightly Vivace. The modern instruments add a bit of power which is no bad thing. A nice touch towards the end with prominent cellos. The slow movement is solid. Scherzo is also a pretty traditional reading with energy in the right places, and the transition from the development back to the main subject is wonderful. Balance in the final movement is all wrong: the strings are virtually inaudible at times. This is a shame, because the movement is trying to make a statement, builds to furious climaxes and whilst a touch contrived, it works really hard to get every drop out of the music, but the recording quality and balance lets things down. Overall this is a decent reading.

Herreweghe: my reaction to each movement was similar - this is a conservative approach with modern instruments and sounds fine without really doing anything extraordinary. The finale has a laid-back tempo and there is some air in there. It feels triumphant but there's no fun. Warms up towards the end. Acceptable overall, but I'd probably file this amongst the traditional recordings.

Third tier: Norrington, Hogwood, Immerseel

Norrington: this is patchy. A stunning start which crackles with tension, then we go into a Vivace where everything's a bit ordinary and a slightly muddy sound. The Allegretto is good: a sprightly pace, with nice string textures and it flows nicely - a good reading. The Scherzo I found was pretty ordinary with nothing memorable, which was rather a surprise given this movement's potential and this being Norrington! Then the final movement was a real let-down, sounded like a school band going through the motions, too pedestrian, this is background music. The climaxes are good but there's no tension leading up to them and some loud brass doesn't turn a piece around. Finishes well. A shame as the first two movements were really pretty good.

Hogwood: this reading is consistent throughout - it's straightforward, relying on the music to speak for itself and the orchestra's playing is beautiful throughout but I just wished for more. The first movement is flawless but unexciting, I wanted more risks - there is gravitas but no drama in the opening - it's all too safe. Second movement is also conservative but beautiful, works better. The third movement is rather traditional but fleet of foot and has a nice flow. Trio is brisk but restrained. This movement works well. Finale blares too much - it's exciting the way being repeatedly hit on the head with a hammer is exciting. Little subtlety. With hindsight I marked the first movement very harshly and perhaps this belongs in the middle tier.

Immerseel: I consider myself a huge fan of Immerseel's Beethoven so I was really surprised when I listened blind how little it did for me. First movement is out of the blocks and is light and airy. Second movement is fine but nothing special. The Scherzo is all wrong: it sprints rather than dances. Tight but feels rushed. The Trio has exaggerated phrasing which makes it sound a bit drunk. Overall terrific energy and I added half a point for effort but it's all a bit much. Finale is decent.

Conclusions - I'd never heard the Weil and this is a very interesting reading with a wonderful slow movement. I was surprised at how good the Bruggen was and also by how much I didn't enjoy the Immerseel. Most consistent of all throughout though was Gardiner who just gets the balance right of power and lightness, musicality, crispness and drama without histrionics. The live and studio versions have their differences but are recognisably the same conductor and I'd recommend either.

[JBS]

Gardiner is probably my favorite HIP cycle, except for Bruggen's second (Glossa) cycle, which is my favorite for 8 3/4ths of the symphonies. [The male soloists ruin the finale of the Ninth.]
But which one did you listen to? Both of his cycles were with the OotEC.