Ukrainian discussion

[Todd]

I don't know when.

Ukraine will not triumph.  Ukraine will settle and negotiate away territory, setting the stage for ongoing instability in the region. 

What is known already is that Ukraine has not surrendered before the overwhelming power of the new barbarians.

A very bland description.  Perhaps pepper it up a bit next time, and maybe call them "baby-eating barbarians", or some such.  That would be modestly more effective.   

[Todd]

Firstly, neither the EU as a collective entity* nor any individual member state are effectively at war with anyone.

It is worth noting the United States is not legally at war with any party to the Russo-Ukrainian war.  If imposing sanctions of various sorts constitutes effectively being at war, then the US is currently at war with about one third of the world.  If weapons sales to foreign countries constitutes some type of proxy of effectively being at war, the US exported weapons to at least 58 countries in 2022 - including, um, Russia.  (This last point is reported by both Statista and PBS News Hour.)

While on the topic of war, I think neither Russia nor Ukraine has declared war, though I could be wrong on that point.  If that is indeed the case, it just proves the irrelevance of international law in such matters.

[Florestan]

Meanwhile, in Romania, they start building shelters from Russian raids.

https://english.mapn.ro/cpresa/6050_Shelters-for-the-population-living-in-Plauru-Locality_html

Actually, there are no Russian raids against Romania. Shelters are needed because when Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense hits a Russian drone, parts of it may end up falling in our territory. This is not to say Ukraine should not hit Russian drones, just to put things in perspective. And of course, if Russia had not invaded Ukraine no such shelter would have been needed.

[AnotherSpin]

Ukraine will not triumph.  Ukraine will settle and negotiate away territory, setting the stage for ongoing instability in the region. 


A very bland description.  Perhaps pepper it up a bit next time, and maybe call them "baby-eating barbarians", or some such.  That would be modestly more effective.   

No, Russians don't eat babies, they kill and steal them.

I have nothing against you reproducing the imprints formed in your head under the influence of certain political commentators - anti-Biden or pro-Trump color, I don't really care about your political circus. Say what you want - my compassion.

[Todd]

No, Russians don't eat babies, they kill and steal them.

Well, then at least include that. 

Also, your understanding of my politics is wanting.

[AnotherSpin]

Actually, there are no Russian raids against Romania. Shelters are needed because when Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense hits a Russian drone, parts of it may end up falling in our territory. This is not to say Ukraine should not hit Russian drones, just to put things in perspective. And of course, if Russia had not invaded Ukraine no such shelter would have been needed.

There was info about one drone hit Romania side last night, as it already happen before. But, I know you do not trust info from Ukrainian side. As I already said, if Romania or NATO decided not to react at this time, let it be so.

[AnotherSpin]

Well, then at least include that. 

Also, your understanding of my politics is wanting.

Thank you for recommendation, but it is not valid for me. I do not understand your politics and honestly have not a slightest interest for.

[Todd]

I do not understand your politics and honestly have not a slightest interest for.

You comment on them, so obviously you have an interest, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. 

[AnotherSpin]

You comment on them, so obviously you have an interest, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. 

Bla-bla

[Florestan]

I know you do not trust info from Ukrainian side.

Info from Ukraine is actually war propaganda and should not be trusted a priori.

if Romania or NATO decided not to react at this time, let it be so.

I remind you that a Polish farmer was killed in a similar incident near the Polish-Ukrainian border and there was no reaction either. NATO knows better than going at war with Russia based on such incidents, neither of which is so clear cut as the Ukrainian side claims. The Pole might have actually been killed by a Ukrainian missile went astray and there is no industrial or portuary infrastructure on the Romanian bank of the Danube in that area so the idea that Russians targeted our territory deliberately is fictitious. In their turn, Russians know better than to attack a NATO member state.

Of course Russia should immediately stop such criminal and destructive air raids but of course they won't.

[AnotherSpin]

Info from Ukraine is actually war propaganda and should not be trusted a priori.

I remind you that a Polish farmer was killed in a similar incident near the Polish-Ukrainian border and there was no reaction either. NATO knows better than going at war with Russia based on such incidents, neither of which is so clear cut as the Ukrainian side claims. The Pole might have actually been killed by a Ukrainian missile went astray and there is no industrial or portuary infrastructure on the Romanian bank of the Danube in that area so the idea that Russians targeted our territory deliberately is fictitious. In their turn, Russians know better than to attack a NATO member state.

Of course Russia should immediately stop such criminal and destructive air raids but of course they won't.

https://amp.dw.com/en/romania-consternation-at-states-response-to-russian-drone/a-66754164

[Karl Henning]

News viz. Ukraine is de facto not Unimportant, and thus off-topic. Just saying.

[Florestan]

https://amp.dw.com/en/romania-consternation-at-states-response-to-russian-drone/a-66754164

It cannot be ruled out that Russia intentionally hit the Romanian river bank to see how Romania and NATO would react.

Pure speculation.

People in Romania are concerned and angered by the situation

This is an overstatement.

We don't have any information indicating an intentional attack by Russia, and we are awaiting the outcome of the ongoing investigation

This.

[AnotherSpin]

Pure speculation.

This is an overstatement.

This.

You said info from Ukraine is propaganda (thak you, btw). I gave a link by German news agency and you are not happy again. I quit.

[AnotherSpin]

News viz. Ukraine is de facto not Unimportant, and thus off-topic. Just saying.

Agree. I have no desire to speak about this here. Particularly with such members as Todd, etc.

[DavidW]

News viz. Ukraine is de facto not Unimportant, and thus off-topic. Just saying.

I agree with Karl.  I am frankly getting tired of it creeping back in.  Me or another mod might tidy this thread up AGAIN.  Let's all please move back into unimportant news.

[Florestan]

You said info from Ukraine is propaganda (thak you, btw)

There is nothing wrong with Ukraine being engaged in war propaganda. Any country at war does that. I just said that war propaganda is not trustworthy, no matter who does it.

I gave a link by German news agency and you are not happy again.

The DW article quotes Ukrainian sources (see above) and makes false claims. I assure you there is no widespread concern and anger among the people and the most pressing topics for ordinary people, including those in the Danube area near Izmail are very different: the increasingly high cost of living (which btw, had began to steeply rise long before the war) and the corruption and incompetence of the officials.

I agree with the latest posters and I will stop at that.

[ritter]

Second warning from the Mods: this is a thread for UNIMPORTANT news.

Is this so difficult to understand?

[Spotted Horses]

Second warning from the Mods: this is a thread for UNIMPORTANT news.

Is this so difficult to understand?

Generally agree, although this thread has a history of being used for important news that is ironically treated as though unimportant. Contentious posting about important news is against the law and the spirit of the thread.

Clean it out, I say.