Recordings you like in spite of poor/subpar performance

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I don't know if there is any recording in question. I am just making the thread out of curiosity in philosophical, sociological and musicology aspects. If any of you kindly explain a reason why you like the recording, it would be great.

[Mandryka]

Ars Antiqua Paris made a bunch of early music recordings, some on Naxos, there's an amateur quality to much of the singing, IMO what they do is really charming - there's a feeling of commitment, and of pioneers.

No less for the recordings made by the Chantarelle Lanza del Vasto. They were a bunch of hippies living in a commune somewhere in deepest France, exploring new lifestyles based on peace and love. But my goodness, they meant what they sang, and you can hear it.

And then there's the Boston Camerata Motet choir and their extraordinary Willaert. And Scherchen's Haydn 7 Last Words, and some of his Mahler.

There's clearly a lot of "classic" piano recordings which are sub par technically - things that Sofronitsky and Cortot made when they were out of their heads on heroin possibly, or I like to think so. But it would be a strange person, a sub human person IMO, who would reject their legacy for the non conformism and the finger slips. Schnabel and Szigetti and Casals too . . .

[vandermolen]

Here are two CDs that have been poorly reviewed which I think highly of. For example the Sauguet Symphony is described as 'too slow' but I think that it works very well:

[Pohjolas Daughter]

There's clearly a lot of "classic" piano recordings which are sub par technically - things that Sofronitsky and Cortot made when they were out of their heads on heroin possibly, or I like to think so. But it would be a strange person, a sub human person IMO, who would reject their legacy for the non conformism and the finger slips. Schnabel and Szigetti and Casals too . . .

Oh, wow!  I love my Cortot recordings!  His Chopin with Barbirolli!  One of my favorite recordings..and yes, I've heard the criticisms of 'note dropping'.  Moving:  yes! 

And we have Casals to thank for those Bach works which he found in a second-hand bin, non? 

PD

[Brian]

A lot of people have said a lot of mean things about the sound recordings of Ancerl and a lot of old Soviet conductors like Svetlanov - 2D, piercing, badly balanced, constricted. I happen to love that particular brand of bad sound quality and the Ancerl collection especially is one of my favorite orchestral soundscapes - bad recordings included!

David Wilde's 16 minute Chopin Fantaisie, recorded immediately after his wife died, shows no attempt whatsoever at traditional virtuosity or fidelity to Chopin's intentions, but is extraordinarily moving.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Ars Antiqua Paris made a bunch of early music recordings, some on Naxos, there's an amateur quality to much of the singing, IMO what they do is really charming - there's a feeling of commitment, and of pioneers.

No less for the recordings made by the Chantarelle Lanza del Vasto. They were a bunch of hippies living in a commune somewhere in deepest France, exploring new lifestyles based on peace and love. But my goodness, they meant what they sang, and you can hear it.

And then there's the Boston Camerata Motet choir and their extraordinary Willaert. And Scherchen's Haydn 7 Last Words, and some of his Mahler.

There's clearly a lot of "classic" piano recordings which are sub par technically - things that Sofronitsky and Cortot made when they were out of their heads on heroin possibly, or I like to think so. But it would be a strange person, a sub human person IMO, who would reject their legacy for the non conformism and the finger slips. Schnabel and Szigetti and Casals too . . .

Great insights Mandryka! I agree that the performers' love of the music and their sincerity are important. And you say "pioneer".  I haven't thought about it. Certainly it is significant in historical and musicology aspects. Such a pioneer work will encourage subsequent recordings with more sophisticated performance. Thank you for the insightful reports.


P.s. Inversely, there could be recordings of excellent performance/execution without sincerity or love of the music. Interesting thing to think about....

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Here are two CDs that have been poorly reviewed which I think highly of. For example the Sauguet Symphony is described as 'too slow' but I think that it works very well:

I am not familiar with Sauguet, but I checked the Symphony 1 recording in question and it sounds very good. Almeida is a great conductor, I like Joaquin Turina set conducted by him. The Turina set is not even controversial, it is virtually admired by everybody. I will check the Copeland 3 (this album and the Naxos album you recommended) this weekend.

[Holden]

 The first movement of the appassionata as played by Glenn Gould.

[DaveF]

There's clearly a lot of "classic" piano recordings which are sub par technically - things that Sofronitsky and Cortot made when they were out of their heads on heroin possibly, or I like to think so. But it would be a strange person, a sub human person IMO, who would reject their legacy for the non conformism and the finger slips. Schnabel and Szigetti and Casals too . . .

Samson François is another name that comes to mind.  And I'm not the greatest authority on piano music, but pianists tell me that it's best not to listen to Rachmaninoff's recordings of his own music with the score, as he sometimes more-or-less makes it up as he goes along.  (Well, he is the composer, after all.)

[staxomega]

Harnoncourt/Leonhardt's cycle of JS Bach's cantatas, the rough and tumble nature of the performances and less than perfect singing from the sopranos makes for an exciting amateurish experience as if hearing them at your local church.

Dozens and dozens of string quartet/quintet recordings of musicians with less than perfect intonation (I do have a tolerance limit to this, what I mean is minor intonation issues) from earlier/mid 20th century groups, for instance Busch Quartet's late Beethoven String Quartets for sheer depth of interpretation.

Paul Badura Skoda's Astree cycle of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas, his struggle on some of those earlier instruments and sort of ugly, choppy legato is charming.

I agree with Cortot that has been mentioned already as well, less than perfect but often incredible interpretations. Similar with Schnabel in Beethoven and Schubert.

[Brian]

hvbias brings up a good point about how sometimes hearing an artist struggle a bit can be fun. To me that is best when the artist just barely is able to play through some really virtuosic music, so that you can hear just how difficult it is and imagine how tired they must be afterwards. Live recordings of some virtuoso piano concertos, for example, when you can hear the pianist get a little bit stressed out.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

hvbias brings up a good point about how sometimes hearing an artist struggle a bit can be fun. To me that is best when the artist just barely is able to play through some really virtuosic music, so that you can hear just how difficult it is and imagine how tired they must be afterwards. Live recordings of some virtuoso piano concertos, for example, when you can hear the pianist get a little bit stressed out.

Interesting, and controversial, point. You also mentioned a pianist's fragile performance after the death of his wife. Many fan of Miles Davis, including me,  like his later works with similar sentiment/values. Perhaps late Horowitz similar?

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Harnoncourt/Leonhardt's cycle of JS Bach's cantatas, the rough and tumble nature of the performances and less than perfect singing from the sopranos makes for an exciting amateurish experience as if hearing them at your local church.

Dozens and dozens of string quartet/quintet recordings of musicians with less than perfect intonation (I do have a tolerance limit to this, what I mean is minor intonation issues) from earlier/mid 20th century groups, for instance Busch Quartet's late Beethoven String Quartets for sheer depth of interpretation.

Paul Badura Skoda's Astree cycle of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas, his struggle on some of those earlier instruments and sort of ugly, choppy legato is charming.

I agree with Cortot that has been mentioned already as well, less than perfect but often incredible interpretations. Similar with Schnabel in Beethoven and Schubert.

Interesting, entertaining and insightful reports. I appreciate it.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Here's one for you to ponder:  Rostropovich's performance of Dvorak's Cello Concerto in England at the Proms the day that Czechoslovakia was invaded by the Soviets.  And the orchestra was the USSR State Symphony and was lead by Svetlanov!  There were yells of protests from the crowd.  He played it at 90 miles an hour, but you could tell how much he loved it and felt about the invasion and won the crowd over in the end.  You can read about it in various articles...including here.  https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/251--recording-of-the-week-two-legendary-performances

It's one that I seldom listen to because it is so fast (though certainly not poor or subpar in any way), but when I heard about this recording and the events surrounding it, I just had to purchase a copy of it.

PD

EDIT:  So, in a nutshell, historical events can also effect ones appreciation of certain recordings too I think; they do for me! 

[vandermolen]

I am not familiar with Sauguet, but I checked the Symphony 1 recording in question and it sounds very good. Almeida is a great conductor, I like Joaquin Turina set conducted by him. The Turina set is not even controversial, it is virtually admired by everybody. I will check the Copeland 3 (this album and the Naxos album you recommended) this weekend.

I especially like the 'Expiatoire' Symphony by Sauguet and strongly recommend it. It is a moving and powerful work and I'm surprised that it is not better known. Kaljo Raid's First Symphony is another recommendation from me.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Here's one for you to ponder:  Rostropovich's performance of Dvorak's Cello Concerto in England at the Proms the day that Czechoslovakia was invaded by the Soviets.  And the orchestra was the USSR State Symphony and was lead by Svetlanov!  There were yells of protests from the crowd.  He played it at 90 miles an hour, but you could tell how much he loved it and felt about the invasion and won the crowd over in the end.  You can read about it in various articles...including here.  https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/251--recording-of-the-week-two-legendary-performances

It's one that I seldom listen to because it is so fast (though certainly not poor or subpar in any way), but when I heard about this recording and the events surrounding it, I just had to purchase a copy of it.

PD

EDIT:  So, in a nutshell, historical events can also effect ones appreciation of certain recordings too I think; they do for me! 

Interesting story. I will get the recording! 😍😍😍

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I especially like the 'Expiatoire' Symphony by Sauguet and strongly recommend it. It is a moving and powerful work and I'm surprised that it is not better known. Kaljo Raid's First Symphony is another recommendation from me.

Never heard of Kaljo Raid. I will look for recordings. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Some of the pioneering Mahler performances conducted by the likes of Scherchen, Horenstein and Barbirolli have fallible playing and some weird interpretive choices, but I love them anyway. There's that sense of strain and commitment, hard to define but I can feel it. Any orchestra can give technically perfect Mahler performances today but I miss that sense of discovery.

[Jo498]

Scherchen is a good candidate (Haydn, Beethoven, Mahler) although for me many of his best recordings are fortunately both decently played and recorded. E.g. the stereo Mahler 2 or Haydn's #45. Haydn's 44 and 49 are somewhat flawed, IIRC the former has generally poor sound a really lugubrious tempo for the slow movement and a few jarring slips by the horns, but still fascinating once in a while.
There are also a few recordings that I keep for nostalgic reasons despite being either flawed or decent but not really distinctive and should have in theory been superseded by others in my collection (e.g. Tate cond. Haydn's 100+103 which was my first Haydn CD ever, I think).

[Mandryka]

It's strange that Scherchen didn't lead world class orchestras and choirs, I mean he was playing mainstream music. He must have found the management uncongenial. Gielen presumably chose to stay with Division II orchestras because it gave him the means to play the music he loved.