Not all it's cracked up to be

[Madiel]

Thirdly: this is a board with its own rules. No matter what happens on other boards or blogs or podcasts, I think it would be best that members here just obey the GMG rules.

The reference to the podcast was not for that purpose. Podcasts don't have rules. It is a podcast that I think 71db in particular would find highly educational, and frankly it might improve his behaviour on this board.

[71 dB]

I have tried to post about classical music, but it's difficult. Most of the time my post about classical music are considered weird and I am NOT someone owning a dozen of cycles of Beethoven's piano sonatas so most of the time I feel like a moron, fool, outsider... What is there to say about Elgar? If I want to hear his music I listen to it and that's it. Doesn't concern other people, but politics does concern all people.

Otherwise: no bugs here.

Something was just bugging you... 

[Sterna]

The reference to the podcast was not for that purpose. Podcasts don't have rules. It is a podcast that I think 71db in particular would find highly educational, and frankly it might improve his behaviour on this board.

Point taken.
Considering the way your three points were built up, I assumed something... and I assumed wrong (and I did not feel the need to watch more rough talk ). Apologies.

[Sterna]

I have tried to post about classical music, but it's difficult. Most of the time my post about classical music are considered weird and I am NOT someone owning a dozen of cycles of Beethoven's piano sonatas so most of the time I feel like a moron, fool, outsider... What is there to say about Elgar? If I want to hear his music I listen to it and that's it. Doesn't concern other people, but politics does concern all people.

You're referring to a problem that maybe goes for more members... maybe you should just accept the fact that, for you, a classical music forum isn't the place to be? Just a thought.
Policital topics seem to interest you much more, and there are plenty of solely political boards around on the internet.
I gather that most members here want to talk about classical music, that's why they became a member here, and to them it can be very discouraging to see a returning shitload of posts in USA Politics, Brexit negotiations or whatever.
What's new on my favourite classical music board?
Trump, Biden, Johnson, EU... ur a jerk, ur a commie, ur a fascist, u don't know shit, ur European, ur American, u are trolling, oh am I? ur dumb, stupid... et cetera. What the heck is this nasty BS doing in a forum that was/is (I think) supposed to be about Elgar, Mahler, Stockhausen, Monteverdi, Couperin or Schumann?
Apologies to all grandmasters I forgot to mention.

Something was just bugging you... 

It's not that 'bad'...
I'm mostly confused about the popularity here of non-classical music threads, and about the way some (returning) offending/abusive/trolling posts are not moderated on a board that does have very clear rules and guidelines.
I can withdraw without regret from this forum; like you, I can perfectly enjoy classical music on my own and on my own terms.
But it is discouraging and it is a pity, because these forums are rather rare.

[Madiel]

Point taken.
Considering the way your three points were built up, I assumed something... and I assumed wrong (and I did not feel the need to watch more rough talk ). Apologies.

No apologies needed, I accept that I constructed my post poorly.

[71 dB]

You're referring to a problem that maybe goes for more members... maybe you should just accept the fact that, for you, a classical music forum isn't the place to be? Just a thought.
Policital topics seem to interest you much more, and there are plenty of solely political boards around on the internet.

People change. Before Trump's victory in 2016 I wasn't much into US politics. I have told this many times here. Also, I used to be more into classical music. Classical music used to blow my mind when it all was "new" to me. Nowadays it's hit and miss and up to my mood. One day I might enjoy something a lot, but two days later it does almost nothing for me. US politics has taken so much of my time, classical music has almost disappeared from my life. I feel I don't have time for classical music. The little music I listen to has been electronic music, Tangerine Dream, Jonny L, etc. which seems to work for me these days of chaos in the World. The World where classical musc "makes sense" seems to have disappeared. Everything is too ugly. Classical music is too beautiful to fit in. I need "mental rose tinted glasses" to see the beauty in the World again. I don't know if it's possible. Is it possible to "undo" becoming cynical?

The problem with politics is people who are in my eyes stupid and ignorant etc. drive me crazy. I mean so mad I slam doors shut and other "property damaging stuff". Despate of the fact I disagree a lot with some members here, most people here are tolerable. In another forum filled with MAGA things are different. I used to be on one forum, but I left (deleted all my posts and account) because it was so crazy! There is no right place for me in this World. I was born here, but my lfe is not needed anywhere. I need to wait for dying away. So, please try to tolerate me. Eventually I will die and this World gets rid of me. I didn't ask to be born. Don't blame me. Blame my parents! Nothing has ever worked for me. I don't know how people find their place. How is it done?

I gather that most members here want to talk about classical music, that's why they became a member here, and to them it can be very discouraging to see a returning shitload of posts in USA Politics, Brexit negotiations or whatever.

Well, it should be easy to avoid politics when it happens in one or two threads. So, I don't see what's the problem.

What's new on my favourite classical music board?
Trump, Biden, Johnson, EU... ur a jerk, ur a commie, ur a fascist, u don't know shit, ur European, ur American, u are trolling, oh am I? ur dumb, stupid... et cetera. What the heck is this nasty BS doing in a forum that was/is (I think) supposed to be about Elgar, Mahler, Stockhausen, Monteverdi, Couperin or Schumann? Apologies to all grandmasters I forgot to mention.

This forum has been nasty from day one for me. Member named M forever in particular used to be insanely nasty toward me. Fortunately he left long ago. My taste in classical music has been constantly ridiculed. I am laughed at when I say Beethoven wasn't a great orchestrator or when I say Dittersdorf was almost as great as Haydn. Compared to all that shit the political threads are nice places.

Also, the problem with classical music is there is too much of it. Too many recordings. It's too much for me time- and money-wise. If classical music was the only thing in my life maybe I could buy and listen to 12 cycles of Beethoven's piano sonatas, but I have so much other stuff. movies, science, politics, non-classical music, etc. it all takes time and money. So, I don't own any full cycle of Beethoven's piano sonatas on CD. I have some Naxos, some BIS. Then there is full cycle mp3, my favorite (Annie Fischer) That's one thing. That's why I can't participate much. I am into German middle baroque (Buxtehude etc.), but not many here are.

I'm mostly confused about the popularity here of non-classical music threads, and about the way some (returning) offending/abusive/trolling posts are not moderated on a board that does have very clear rules and guidelines.
I can withdraw without regret from this forum; like you, I can perfectly enjoy classical music on my own and on my own terms.
But it is discouraging and it is a pity, because these forums are rather rare.

We have entered cultural bubble World where we all live inside our bubbles and we can't understand anymore people inside other bubbles. Forum rules are silly in such a World. The civility needed doesn't exist anymore. Now the guideline is not to murder other people. Trolling, abuse and offending others has been normalized. Wellcome to the new World. This is bubble world. It started when Apple released the first iPhone a little more than a decade ago. The fact is the World you or me want doesn't exist anymore. Sorry.

[Madiel]

*deep breath*

71db, my first real awareness of you as a poster, long before I became aware of you on political threads, was of you being very rude to me about a particular aspect of my taste in music.

You don't get to complain about lack of civility on that front as if it's all everyone else's fault.

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Sterna]

[...]

We have entered cultural bubble World where we all live inside our bubbles and we can't understand anymore people inside other bubbles. Forum rules are silly in such a World. The civility needed doesn't exist anymore. Now the guideline is not to murder other people. Trolling, abuse and offending others has been normalized. Wellcome to the new World. This is bubble world. It started when Apple released the first iPhone a little more than a decade ago. The fact is the World you or me want doesn't exist anymore. Sorry.

This makes me sad. Besides negative experiences in these 'modern' times, I still have entirely different (and very positive) experiences with fellow human beings, too. In my personal life, and at work. Which means that I can not agree with your 'fact'.
And it also means that what I said earlier about forum rules/guidelines/behaviour... is still my unchanged personal opinion.

I sincerely hope you will experience some more positive things in the nearby future, too.

And now I'm off here, because this little debate is very much off-topic, actually. (My bad.)

[Florestan]

Come on, Poju, stop whining, for God's sake!

You live in a free country, no political repression, no big social inequality, universal healthcare, paid vacations, guaranteed retirement and whatnot. You have a job paid well enough that you can afford to have a home, to be well-clothed and well-fed and to spend money on your hobbies. In fact, you live a privileged life which hundreds of millions of people can only dream of. You meet all the external conditions to live a happy, or at least a tranquil and contented life yet you are always unhappy, always complaining, always counting the ways in which your life is a miserable one --- just because someone, somewhere disagrees with your political or musical opinions, or because Anericans are "stupid" and "brainwashed" and they stubbornly refuse to turn USA in another Finland.

[Harry]

Come on, Poju, stop whining, for God's sake!

You live in a free country, no political repression, no big social inequality, universal healthcare, paid vacations, guaranteed retirement and whatnot. You have a job paid well enough that you can afford to have a home, to be well-clothed and well-fed and to spend money on your hobbies. In fact, you live a privileged life which hundreds of millions of people can only dream of. You meet all the external conditions to live a happy, or at least a tranquil and contented life yet you are always unhappy, always complaining, always counting the ways in which your life is a miserable one --- just because someone, somewhere disagrees with your political or musical opinions, or because Anericans are "stupid" and "brainwashed" and they stubbornly refuse to turn USA in another Finland.

He can not help himself for being what he is, and feeling as he does. I for one accepted what he is, and why he has such trouble with himself and the rest of the world. I think instead of admonishing him we rather should show compassion for what befalls him. His life must be a heavy burden to carry.

[71 dB]

*deep breath*

71db, my first real awareness of you as a poster, long before I became aware of you on political threads, was of you being very rude to me about a particular aspect of my taste in music.

You don't get to complain about lack of civility on that front as if it's all everyone else's fault.

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

I'm sorry. I don't remember any of this or what aspect of your taste did I attack and in what context. However, I admit of having been rude myself. I don't deny that. That's how the World seems to work. People are sometimes nice to each other and sometimes rude. I believe I have also been both.

This makes me sad. Besides negative experiences in these 'modern' times, I still have entirely different (and very positive) experiences with fellow human beings, too. In my personal life, and at work. Which means that I can not agree with your 'fact'.
And it also means that what I said earlier about forum rules/guidelines/behaviour... is still my unchanged personal opinion.

I sincerely hope you will experience some more positive things in the nearby future, too.

And now I'm off here, because this little debate is very much off-topic, actually. (My bad.)

There are positive experiences, but it feel the negative stuff dominates*. I really like Blu-rays for example. I love exploring movies on Blu-ray with excellent picture quality. The fact that Ju-On 1 & 2 movies were released on Blu-ray in Nordic countries including Finnish subtitles this fall was a BIG thing for me. Things like this make my smile for a while, but then negative stuff cumulates and makes smiling difficult, things like second wave of corona virus.

I am currently participating a course on digital audio/studio working/mixing where we learn to work in a studio and use Pro Tools. As an acoustic engineer I know digital audio well, but studio work/Pro Tools is something I have never done. That's interesting and fun, even if we wear masks all day long... 

Thanks for your wishes! I'm trying...

*It's possible I allow it to dominate thinking all the problems in the World all the time. 

Come on, Poju, stop whining, for God's sake!

You live in a free country, no political repression, no big social inequality, universal healthcare, paid vacations, guaranteed retirement and whatnot. You have a job paid well enough that you can afford to have a home, to be well-clothed and well-fed and to spend money on your hobbies. In fact, you live a privileged life which hundreds of millions of people can only dream of. You meet all the external conditions to live a happy, or at least a tranquil and contented life yet you are always unhappy, always complaining, always counting the ways in which your life is a miserable one --- just because someone, somewhere disagrees with your political or musical opinions, or because Anericans are "stupid" and "brainwashed" and they stubbornly refuse to turn USA in another Finland.

Yes, things are pretty good in MY country, but then again most people in the world don't have it this good. Retirement is NOT quaranteed. The fear is that if the economic growth is not fast enought for the next few decades the retirement system will collapse and there is not enough money to pay retired people their benefits. I am really scared of that. How am I supposed to live without income when I am 70? I don't have a job. I have been unemployed for 4 years now. My rent is about as much as my unemployment benefit and everything else I have to pay from my savings (meaning less saving for retirement). Despite of this I think I am doing fine. My mood varies. Maybe I open up here only when I feel down and that's why people here think I am always unhappy. That's not the case. Sure, I was MUCH happier in the 80's when I knew nothing about the healthcare problems in the US and islamic terrorism in Europe wasn't a thing. I was too ignorant to see the ugliness in the World and as we know ignorance is bliss.

[71 dB]

He can not help himself for being what he is, and feeling as he does. I for one accepted what he is, and why he has such trouble with himself and the rest of the world. I think instead of admonishing him we rather should show compassion for what befalls him. His life must be a heavy burden to carry.

You are hands down the most understanding member around here Harry. No question!  0:)

[Florestan]

I think I am doing fine. My mood varies. Maybe I open up here only when I feel down and that's why people here think I am always unhappy. That's not the case.

I'm really glad to hear that. You should try to show us your positive moods more than your negative ones. 

As for the ugliness and the chaos of the world, that's  exactly why we need classical music (and arts in general): to restore beauty and order in our lives. My response to what's happening in the world is not less Mozart, Schubert or Chopin, but more; yours shouldn't be less Elgar, Dittersdorf or Buxtehude, but more. 

[Madiel]

One can conclude that the USA is pretty fucked up without then concluding that the solution is to spend lots of one's time from afar trying to worry about it.

And you're hardly the only person I know who talks about it all the time. There's a friend on Facebook... though Facebook is inherently a generalist site.

But it just doesn't make sense to me to make it such a heavy focus, day in day out. My main conclusion from deciding that the USA is pretty fucked up is simply that I best avoid the place. Persuading millions of people that it's wrong to vote for a narcissist with limited intelligence is beyond my capacity.

And seriously consider listening to Rabbit Hole.

[Florestan]

One can conclude that the USA is pretty fucked up without then concluding that the solution is to spend lots of one's time from afar trying to worry about it.

[...]

My main conclusion from deciding that the USA is pretty fucked up is simply that I best avoid the place.

Fucked up as it is, USA is still a place that millions of people are desperately trying to reach in the hope of living there a better life than anything they could ever have in their own fucked up countries. Just saying.

Your general point is valid, though: losing one's sleep, or even one's mind, over the USA not having universal healthcare when one is not a USA citizen is... I don't even know what it is: ridiculous? foolish? both?

But I do agree with Harry on this: Poju just can't help it. I could safely bet that if tomorrow morning the USA miraculously turns into a social-democracy Finland-style, he'd still be worried, and complaining, because Brazil or India didn't follow suit.

[Madiel]

Fucked up as it is, USA is still a place that millions of people are desperately trying to reach in the hope of living there a better life than anything they could ever have in their own fucked up countries. Just saying.

Sure. But that obviously depends on your current location/perspective. The USA is not the worst place in the world to live, it's just that it's nowhere near no.1 on most internationally created measures either. The hope it sells is... partly true and partly very dodgy. Not least because the levels of inequality are bigger than roughly comparable countries, and growing. People go there in the belief they won't be amongst those at the bottom of the pile.

[Florestan]

The USA is not the worst place in the world to live, it's just that it's nowhere near no.1 on most internationally created measures either. The hope it sells is... partly true and partly very dodgy.

All true but then again when it comes to immigration, No. 1 depends not on most internationally created measures, but on availabillity and affordability. For Latin Americans, the USA is far more handy than Europe; for the Middle-Easterners or North-Africans, the reverse applies. It's far easier for, say, a Guatemalan to reach the USA (legally or illegally) than Sweden; it's far easier for, say, a Syrian to reach Sweden (legally or illegally) than the USA.

[Florestan]

the levels of inequality are bigger than roughly comparable countries, and growing. People go there in the belief they won't be amongst those at the bottom of the pile.

Most people who go there are already at the bottom of the pile in their own countries. If they had any hope of improving their lot at home they wouldn't leave their country, would they? At the very least, the USA is not denying them that hope.

[Madiel]

Yeah. Anyway, we agree that the original point was about looking at the USA from an Australian or Finnish perspective. Let's not derail the thread any further.

[Florestan]

looking at the USA from an Australian or Finnish perspective.

Well, looking at the matter from a Romanian perspective it seems to me that had it not been for the much-maligned (including from an Australian or Finnish perspective) USA, there would have not been any Australian or Finnish perspective --- just Japanese and Russian ones.