Topic: Healthy musical diet

[71 dB]

I saw an interesting Youtube video about why people like/dislike certain music genres. Music can be decomposed into musical dimensions. The three most relevant of these are

Melody (M)
Harmony (H)
Rhythm (R)

The fourth dimension could be Sonics (S), which is a combination on things like timber, spatiality and dynamics). The fifth dimension could be Lyrics (L), which is often strongly related to melody.

Each music style/genre uses a weighted "spectrum" of these musical dimension so that some of them are "carriers" and others are "supporting".  For example Baroque/classical era is (Mr) (carriers melody and rhythm to lesser degree) while romantic era classical is (Hr)(carrier is harmony and rhythm to lesser degree). Interestingly pop music uses all dimensions equally and that's the reason why each dimension has to been simple in it's musical message. So, if your ears are tuned to say romantic classical music which emphasizes harmony they expect complex harmony and the I-IV-V-vi or whatever chord progressions of pop music sounds very simple. Pop becomes more interesting when you listen to all the musical dimensions simultaneously: Melody, harmony, rhythm, sonics and lyrics. Similarly, people liking pop may hate jazz because jazz uses complex harmony (and rhythm), but is very little about sonics for example. Modal jazz is more about melody and less about harmony etc. Rap is Rhythm, Sonics and Lyrics and feels very "empty" if you expect Melody and Harmony.

Learning to "like" a new music genre is about learning to tune your ears for the particular dimension spectrum and one can learn to be able to switch between spectrums fast. Listening to one music genre only is not a healthy "diet" because it makes it difficult to appreciate other music styles with different dimension spectrums. 

This theory agrees well with my own experiences in learning to like music I didn't care about before. Expanding music taste makes it easier to learn to like other music, because a certain genre I already like may have a similar dimension spectrum. Pop music has been a mystery for me, because it uses very simple musical structures, but at it's best is in my opinion stunning music. This theory explains that mystery nicely. It also explains why someone heavily into romantic classical music (Wagner, Brahms, Liszt etc) may not be that much into J.S. Bach and Handel.

Be openminded. Try to figure out what is good and tune your ears to that. Avoid too limited music diet. It just makes you hate everything else.

[greg]

Sonics is too vague of a term... and jazz uses a lot of dynamics so don't see how it isn't about sonics if sonics includes dynamics usage.

Rap is indeed heavily lyrics dominant, everything other dimension is usually simple/boring/repetitve...

Which I think can be another dimension of what people like/dislike. Rhythm is great, give me a nice 15/16 over 4/4 polymetrical rhythm and some drum fills, not some simple beat that's repeated 50 times and does nothing else.

[Jo498]

Couldn't one just say "sound color" (Klangfarbe) instead of sonics?

I think there is a very banal additional aspect, or actually two: habit and spontaneous dislike. E.g. many people dislike "operatic voices" because they have been accustomed to a) uneducated voices singing (like their mothers lullabies) or b) amplified "crooning" (or any other pop singing style of the last 80 years). I spontaneously dislike lots of popular music because I simply cannot stand the volume level, the oomph-sounds, the voices etc. And if the sounds are pleasant enough (e.g. in more acoustic style performances) I tend to find most of it decent/pleasant but rather boring after a while.

To overcome the forces of habit or spontaneous dislike one has to make a conscious effort, maybe more than with music one simply finds impenetrable and boring. And most people will only make that effort if there is something somewhat interesting about the music (which is not so likely from the very condition that one feels dislike...)

[71 dB]

Sonics is too vague of a term...

Not to me.

and jazz uses a lot of dynamics so don't see how it isn't about sonics if sonics includes dynamics usage.

I don't think typical jazz is based on dynamic so it isn't "carrier" for jazz. Maybe orchestral big band jazz, but that's not typical jazz.

Rap is indeed heavily lyrics dominant, everything other dimension is usually simple/boring/repetitve...

Yes, but that simple/repetitive rhythm is fundamental aspect of rap.

[71 dB]

Couldn't one just say "sound color" (Klangfarbe) instead of sonics?

Sure if you want. Freedom and stuff... ...I use sonics. 

I think there is a very banal additional aspect, or actually two: habit and spontaneous dislike. E.g. many people dislike "operatic voices" because they have been accustomed to a) uneducated voices singing (like their mothers lullabies) or b) amplified "crooning" (or any other pop singing style of the last 80 years). I spontaneously dislike lots of popular music because I simply cannot stand the volume level, the oomph-sounds, the voices etc. And if the sounds are pleasant enough (e.g. in more acoustic style performances) I tend to find most of it decent/pleasant but rather boring after a while.

Yes, operatic singing sounds horrible before your ears learn to appreciate it.

To overcome the forces of habit or spontaneous dislike one has to make a conscious effort, maybe more than with music one simply finds impenetrable and boring. And most people will only make that effort if there is something somewhat interesting about the music (which is not so likely from the very condition that one feels dislike...)

Yes.

[Mirror Image]

I’m not actually entirely sure where you’re getting at in your initial post, 71 dB, but the bottomline is pretty simple: I listen to music that gives me pleasure whether it be intellectually, emotionally or both. Whether it’s a ‘healthy’ musical diet is of no importance to me.

[71 dB]

AFTER THIS POST I TRY TO KEEP AWAY FROM THIS BOARD TO BE A HAPPIER PERSON.
I TRY TO CONCENTRATE ON THINGS THAT MAKE ME HAPPY.
GMG HAS SADLY HARDLY EVER BEEN ONE OF THOSE THINGS.
I KNOW HOW TO BE HAPPIER.
IT'S JUST HAVING THE SELF CONTROL TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS.

I’m not actually entirely sure where you’re getting at in your initial post, 71 dB, but the bottomline is pretty simple: I listen to music that gives me pleasure whether it be intellectually, emotionally or both. Whether it’s a ‘healthy’ musical diet is of no importance to me.

My point is something you don't get pleasure out of certain kind of music because that kind of music is not part of your musical diet. Sometimes the problems is not with the music, but in the limitations we have set to ourself. I don't get enjoyment out of hip hop for example. Instead of calling all hip hop rubbish it might be intellectually more honest to admit hip hop is not part of my musical diet, so why would I get enjoyment out of it? I guess if I started to listen to a lot of hip hop, eventually I would notice some of it is great and gives me pleasure in some form or another.

This is how we understand how people live in different bubbles of music diet unable to comprehent the taste each other.

[steve ridgway]

My point is something you don't get pleasure out of certain kind of music because that kind of music is not part of your musical diet. Sometimes the problems is not with the music, but in the limitations we have set to ourself. I don't get enjoyment out of hip hop for example. Instead of calling all hip hop rubbish it might be intellectually more honest to admit hip hop is not part of my musical diet, so why would I get enjoyment out of it? I guess if I started to listen to a lot of hip hop, eventually I would notice some of it is great and gives me pleasure in some form or another.

Crossovers and cover versions can be helpful for dipping a toe in the water. In the case of hip hop I have two albums in which Dälek collaborate with other artists I already enjoy - The Young Gods and Faust. As for Country I came to appreciate Dolly Parton’s Jolene after seeing the Sisters Of Mercy do a gothic cover version in their concerts.

[Que]

AFTER THIS POST I TRY TO KEEP AWAY FROM THIS BOARD TO BE A HAPPIER PERSON.
I TRY TO CONCENTRATE ON THINGS THAT MAKE ME HAPPY.
GMG HAS SADLY HARDLY EVER BEEN ONE OF THOSE THINGS.
I KNOW HOW TO BE HAPPIER.
IT'S JUST HAVING THE SELF CONTROL TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS.

I hate to tell you that I told you so.... but I told you so! 

Q