Author Topic: USA Politics (redux)  (Read 65560 times)

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2380 on: April 06, 2021, 06:22:45 PM »
That. Is. Not. What. History. Is. Written. By. The. Winners. Means.

I am not saying what you are saying. We are disagreeing.

And you still don't know what "literally" means. Or what is typical of history books.


I'm pretty sure there's more than an element of trolling in your posts, so I'll have nothing more to add.


Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2381 on: April 06, 2021, 07:25:57 PM »
That. Is. Not. What. History. Is. Written. By. The. Winners. Means.
Then tell me what "it means" (provide source).
Instead of just sitting there insulting me.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2382 on: April 07, 2021, 04:37:04 AM »

     What have Marxist historians won?
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Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2383 on: April 07, 2021, 06:03:44 AM »
     What have Marxist historians won?
They themselves probably haven't went to battle. But they are the offspring of the victors of something.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2384 on: April 07, 2021, 07:38:22 AM »
They themselves probably haven't went to battle. But they are the offspring of the victors of something.

     There are generational trends in history. Boomers rebelled against their parents, and everyone since has rebelled against the Boomers who refuse to shut up and go away.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2385 on: April 07, 2021, 08:13:59 AM »
That. Is. Not. What. History. Is. Written. By. The. Winners. Means.

I am not saying what you are saying. We are disagreeing.

And you still don't know what "literally" means. Or what is typical of history books.


I'm pretty sure there's more than an element of trolling in your posts, so I'll have nothing more to add.



He may just want attention. No wonder he plays up the "Trump is the real victim" canard.
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Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2386 on: April 07, 2021, 08:34:10 AM »
     There are generational trends in history. Boomers rebelled against their parents, and everyone since has rebelled against the Boomers who refuse to shut up and go away.
I'm not sure what that has to do with this?



He may just want attention. No wonder he plays up the "Trump is the real victim" canard.
Do you really believe that?
Someone can't just want to have a (polite) discussion? Is that impossible? Some people here recognize that.

And where did I say "Trump is the real victim?" You're putting words in my mouth.
How do you fail to distinguish between that, and wanting to question the narrative about him?





And you still don't know what "literally" means.
Here in the US it's common to for people, especially younger, to use the word "literally" in cases that's more like "figuratively" (with an exclamation point).
Not that I agree with that, just that it's rubbed off.
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Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2387 on: April 07, 2021, 08:45:22 AM »
Also, you can stop making the thread about me.

When I try to defend myself by providing some thoughts/background info, I get the complaint from Herman that I'm making it about me.

Yet Herman and others are the ones starting it by use of the ad hominems, making it about me in the first place.

So if you don't want the thread to be about me, stop the ad hominems, stop making it about me.
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2388 on: April 07, 2021, 10:24:02 AM »

And where did I say "Trump is the real victim?" You're putting words in my mouth.
How do you fail to distinguish between that, and wanting to question the narrative about him?


sigh...

Perhaps he suspected - as I do - that coming after a discussion of Trump's racism your throwing in the idea of history being written by the victors was yet another way of questioning the reality of that racism.

As though now Biden in power with the MSM unthinkingly doing his every bidding is following this made up narrative of Trump's racism (and every other fault he manifestly had)..

Curiously this victors prerogative of rewriting history is what Trump thought he should and everyone should fall in line with in 2017 re the "mess" he was left with from Obama.

Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2389 on: April 07, 2021, 10:57:04 AM »
sigh...

Perhaps he suspected - as I do - that coming after a discussion of Trump's racism your throwing in the idea of history being written by the victors was yet another way of questioning the reality of that racism.
Ok gotcha.
I wanted to introduce a different topic, I'm sick of Trump (originally it was someone else who brought him in regards to me), and found an interesting idea that is related to politics and wanted to share.
Didn't want to connect that to him.
It might be a little bit too general of a question, though, for this thread.

If we still had a Chat Thread I would have put it on there (as well as anything else that is more loosely related to politics).
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Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2390 on: April 07, 2021, 04:45:01 PM »
Also, you can stop making the thread about me.

When I try to defend myself by providing some thoughts/background info, I get the complaint from Herman that I'm making it about me.

Yet Herman and others are the ones starting it by use of the ad hominems, making it about me in the first place.

So if you don't want the thread to be about me, stop the ad hominems, stop making it about me.

Maybe if people knew what the enneagram 5w4 is like, they would understand me better, because I think it's a pretty good description. My motivation is not to apologize or make excuses for blatantly racist speech. That would just be bizarre IMO, why would anyone do that?

The type is called "The Iconoclast" for a reason. They want to challenge the status quo, and aren't afraid of going into taboo territory. The status quo here is what I mentioned. I like to challenge stuff like that, it's like the complete opposite of caving into peer pressure. Make people challenge their worldview. Make myself challenge my own worldview, which I have done many times to myself.

Maybe that would help. But it's probably hopeless. When people have an extremely solidified worldview, it's triggering to even question any of it at all.  And instead of trying to understand, only getting personal attacks. :-\

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2391 on: April 07, 2021, 05:00:54 PM »
"readiness to challenge the status quo" doesn't count for much. lazy, illiterate idiots do that cheaply every day.  There's no virtue in saying, "What if the earth is flat?" 
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2392 on: April 07, 2021, 05:39:56 PM »
An anti-Trump ponders the GOP's anti-policy politics
https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/red-bull-elon-musk-and-matt-gaetz

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2393 on: April 08, 2021, 04:27:30 AM »
An anti-Trump ponders the GOP's anti-policy politics
https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/red-bull-elon-musk-and-matt-gaetz

Brilliant: But the preponderance of evidence suggests that Republican voters don’t care about tangible government outcomes.

They don’t care whether or not a border wall is built, or who would have (theoretically) paid for it. They don’t care about whether or not the government fails to manage a global pandemic, killing hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens. They don’t care if unemployment is up—or down. They don’t care about stimulus checks. Or the national debt.

It’s a little bit like—check that—it’s exactly like Red Bull.

Consumers don’t care who makes Red Bull. They don’t even care what’s in the can that says “Red Bull.” What they care about is the amazing content on the Red Bull YouTube channel.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2394 on: April 08, 2021, 05:59:25 AM »

You literally aren't saying anything with that. Read the first sentence of the second post you quoted, i am already saying why i am talking about myself, because you are constantly misrepresenting me and was trying to explain where I'm coming from.


"readiness to challenge the status quo" doesn't count for much. lazy, illiterate idiots do that cheaply every day.  There's no virtue in saying, "What if the earth is flat?" 
Everything can be misused in a way that doesn't count for much. Virtue signaling itself can have no virtue, many times psychopaths with signal to the world how good and righteous they are when deep down they are a piece of shit.
Just one really easy example are pedo priests.

(so yeah, virtue signaling is not my intent at all, interesting that you think it would be though)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 06:03:42 AM by greg »
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2395 on: April 09, 2021, 01:56:12 PM »
How Trump Steered Supporters Into Unwitting Donations
Online donors were guided into weekly recurring contributions. Demands for refunds spiked. Complaints to banks and credit card companies soared. But the money helped keep Donald Trump’s struggling campaign afloat.


"Stacy Blatt was in hospice care last September listening to Rush Limbaugh’s dire warnings about how badly Donald J. Trump’s campaign needed money when he went online and chipped in everything he could: $500.

It was a big sum for a 63-year-old battling cancer and living in Kansas City on less than $1,000 per month. But that single contribution — federal records show it was his first ever — quickly multiplied. Another $500 was withdrawn the next day, then $500 the next week and every week through mid-October, without his knowledge — until Mr. Blatt’s bank account had been depleted and frozen. When his utility and rent payments bounced, he called his brother, Russell, for help.

What the Blatts soon discovered was $3,000 in withdrawals by the Trump campaign in less than 30 days. They called their bank and said they thought they were victims of fraud.

“It felt,” Russell said, “like it was a scam.”

But what the Blatts believed was duplicity was actually an intentional scheme to boost revenues by the Trump campaign and the for-profit company that processed its online donations, WinRed. Facing a cash crunch and getting badly outspent by the Democrats, the campaign had begun last September to set up recurring donations by default for online donors, for every week until the election.
Contributors had to wade through a fine-print disclaimer and manually uncheck a box to opt out.

As the election neared, the Trump team made that disclaimer increasingly opaque, an investigation by The New York Times showed. It introduced a second prechecked box, known internally as a “money bomb,” that doubled a person’s contribution. Eventually its solicitations featured lines of text in bold and capital letters that overwhelmed the opt-out language.

The tactic ensnared scores of unsuspecting Trump loyalists — retirees, military veterans, nurses and even experienced political operatives. Soon, banks and credit card companies were inundated with fraud complaints from the president’s own supporters about donations they had not intended to make, sometimes for thousands of dollars."[...]

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2396 on: April 09, 2021, 05:48:56 PM »
How Trump Steered Supporters Into Unwitting Donations
Online donors were guided into weekly recurring contributions. Demands for refunds spiked. Complaints to banks and credit card companies soared. But the money helped keep Donald Trump’s struggling campaign afloat.


"Stacy Blatt was in hospice care last September listening to Rush Limbaugh’s dire warnings about how badly Donald J. Trump’s campaign needed money when he went online and chipped in everything he could: $500.

It was a big sum for a 63-year-old battling cancer and living in Kansas City on less than $1,000 per month. But that single contribution — federal records show it was his first ever — quickly multiplied. Another $500 was withdrawn the next day, then $500 the next week and every week through mid-October, without his knowledge — until Mr. Blatt’s bank account had been depleted and frozen. When his utility and rent payments bounced, he called his brother, Russell, for help.

What the Blatts soon discovered was $3,000 in withdrawals by the Trump campaign in less than 30 days. They called their bank and said they thought they were victims of fraud.

“It felt,” Russell said, “like it was a scam.”

But what the Blatts believed was duplicity was actually an intentional scheme to boost revenues by the Trump campaign and the for-profit company that processed its online donations, WinRed. Facing a cash crunch and getting badly outspent by the Democrats, the campaign had begun last September to set up recurring donations by default for online donors, for every week until the election.
Contributors had to wade through a fine-print disclaimer and manually uncheck a box to opt out.

As the election neared, the Trump team made that disclaimer increasingly opaque, an investigation by The New York Times showed. It introduced a second prechecked box, known internally as a “money bomb,” that doubled a person’s contribution. Eventually its solicitations featured lines of text in bold and capital letters that overwhelmed the opt-out language.

The tactic ensnared scores of unsuspecting Trump loyalists — retirees, military veterans, nurses and even experienced political operatives. Soon, banks and credit card companies were inundated with fraud complaints from the president’s own supporters about donations they had not intended to make, sometimes for thousands of dollars."[...]

Especially as then-President, no one could con like Trump.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline milk

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2397 on: April 10, 2021, 03:45:07 AM »
Show me someone who truly believed that version of history in the second part and I'll show you someone who was on the road to the first part.
  I live in Japan where I think something like the second view is pretty common. They (the Japanese people who do feel that way) might even express it in a way they think is innocuous and casual. Plus, they might be right in thinking this is pretty common as it's a pretty typical aspect of ethnic nationalism. Look at what's been going on in India over the last decade, for example. I don't necessarily agree that it's a road to the first view though that danger is there. Nationalism is a false view of reality. But anyway, it may be very common in a lot of places and though noxious, I don't agree it's THE road to genocide. The view is one necessary ingredient though but you need much more to get to view #1.

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2398 on: April 10, 2021, 08:30:21 AM »
  I live in Japan where I think something like the second view is pretty common. They (the Japanese people who do feel that way) might even express it in a way they think is innocuous and casual. Plus, they might be right in thinking this is pretty common as it's a pretty typical aspect of ethnic nationalism. Look at what's been going on in India over the last decade, for example. I don't necessarily agree that it's a road to the first view though that danger is there. Nationalism is a false view of reality. But anyway, it may be very common in a lot of places and though noxious, I don't agree it's THE road to genocide. The view is one necessary ingredient though but you need much more to get to view #1.

I was referring specifically to the American experience as a nation of immigrants and the deliberate historical denial of that.

Offline greg

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2399 on: April 10, 2021, 05:48:42 PM »
I was referring specifically to the American experience as a nation of immigrants and the deliberate historical denial of that.
How far back does it have to be to be still considered a nation of immigrants?
My ancestors came to the US in the 1800's...
Japanese were also immigrants also (but waaaay back in time) with the Jomon replacing the Yayoi. So quite further back.
Is there an official line to be drawn with that phrase? 500 hundred years or so?
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