USA Politics (redux)

[milk]

I was referring specifically to the American experience as a nation of immigrants and the deliberate historical denial of that.

How far back does it have to be to be still considered a nation of immigrants?
My ancestors came to the US in the 1800's...
Japanese were also immigrants also (but waaaay back in time) with the Jomon replacing the Yayoi. So quite further back.
Is there an official line to be drawn with that phrase? 500 hundred years or so?

I do think the idea of the U.S. is anti-nationalistic. At its best, it's a country based on an idea, not a perceived people. I also think every country needs a rational immigration policy. When Americans slam multiculturalism, I'm not sure exactly what they mean.

[greg]

At its best, it's a country based on an idea, not a perceived people.

Yeah. It's, in my view, it's very libertarian leaning. Yet people out there who want to control everyone would love it to be an authoritarian, seems very un-American.   


Also, about the "nation of immigrants" phrase (which I've been hearing lately more often), it seems very weird whether or not it's including the descendants of European settlers or African slaves. If it isn't, then, sure, more immigrants are coming here compared to any other country, but it's only about 15% that actually are considered immigrants.

From wikipedia:

In absolute numbers, the United States has a larger immigrant population than any other country, with 47 million immigrants as of 2015.[2] This represents 19.1% of the 244 million international migrants worldwide, and 14.4% of the U.S. population. Some other countries have larger proportions of immigrants, such as Switzerland with 24.9% and Canada with 21.9%.[3][4]

14.4% seems accurate.

It's weird because, say you have a bunch of high school in a state, and you count the number of goths in each high school.
High School X has 15% of their student body claiming they are goths, which is the highest in the whole state. And then someone calls High School X a "high school of goths," ignoring that nerds are 20% of the high school, jocks are also 20%, etc. Just kind of a weird phrase IMO.

[André]

I found this article on corporate tax cuts an interesting read:


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/09/opinion/trump-corporate-tax-reform.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

The gist of it can be summed up by this short paragraph:

 

« So one way to think about the failure of the Trump tax cut is that it didn't reverse capital flight because the capital flight never happened in the first place. In effect, the U.S. government gave up hundreds of billions of dollars to fix a nonexistent problem . »

[SimonNZ]

Yeah. It's, in my view, it's very libertarian leaning. Yet people out there who want to control everyone would love it to be an authoritarian, seems very un-American.   


Also, about the "nation of immigrants" phrase (which I've been hearing lately more often), it seems very weird whether or not it's including the descendants of European settlers or African slaves. If it isn't, then, sure, more immigrants are coming here compared to any other country, but it's only about 15% that actually are considered immigrants.

From wikipedia:14.4% seems accurate.

It's weird because, say you have a bunch of high school in a state, and you count the number of goths in each high school.
High School X has 15% of their student body claiming they are goths, which is the highest in the whole state. And then someone calls High School X a "high school of goths," ignoring that nerds are 20% of the high school, jocks are also 20%, etc. Just kind of a weird phrase IMO.

Once again...that's not what the phrase means.

Must we do this every time?

[greg]

One again...that's not what the phrase means.

Must we do this every time?

I'm asking what the phrase means. What does it mean, exactly? Seems like by itself it doesn't make sense, there must be some alternate meaning to it. Since you just used it, perhaps you would know.

Perhaps it should be "America is a nation of descendants of immigrants" or "America was a nation of immigrants?" That would make more sense.

edit:
...ok, does it actually mean "American is a nation of immigration?" That would make the most sense. Because the past can be more easily included when worded that way... 

[Herman]

"A Nation of Immigrants" is the title of a book by J. F. Kennedy
- which probably means it was written in cooperation with Arthur M. Schlesinger.

Here's the money quote: "Another way of indicating the importance of immigration to America is to point out that every American who ever lived, with the exception of one group, was either an immigrant himself or a descendant of immigrants."

These things are not hard to find online...

[greg]

"A Nation of Immigrants" is the title of a book by J. F. Kennedy
- which probably means it was written in cooperation with Arthur M. Schlesinger.

Cool, thanks.

Here's the money quote: "Another way of indicating the importance of immigration to America is to point out that every American who ever lived, with the exception of one group, was either an immigrant himself or a descendant of immigrants."

Yeah, that makes sense. The phrase is just really shorthand then, for all of that.

[Herman]

Is it just me and the media I'm reading, or are the US getting back into a even higher random shoot-and-kill mode as covid seems to be on the wane?

There are so many reports of random killings...

[DavidW]

Is it just me and the media I'm reading, or are the US getting back into a even higher random shoot-and-kill mode as covid seems to be on the wane?

There are so many reports of random killings...

No kidding!  We've had two fatal shootings in the small town I live in the course of just two days.  There was a mass shooting in a town a few hours from where I live.  And every few days another mass shooting appears in the headlines.

[Stürmisch Bewegt]

RE: Shootings in the U.S., there are many factors at play right now, inc. societal stress, but chief among them is the BIG Second Amendment mistake.  Not every human being (inc. many police) has the mental and emotional wherewithal to safely own and handle weaponry of this power (considerably in advance of what our forefathers had when they passed the 2nd Amend.)  To assume that they do is a grievous error that has caused much grief.  America loves her guns, unfortunately, more than it does its citizens if truth be told, and many more people must be sacrificed to the Gun God before its citizens wake up to their dangers.  The NRA has a lot to answer for, IMO; their misleading mantra "Guns don't kill people, people do," carries a lot of weight with both gun owners and legislators.  The truth is that "Guns enable the killing..."

[DavidW]

That is overly simplistic.  There has been a dramatic increase in gun violence in the past decade or so and the second amendment and debate surrounding it has existed for much longer.

[Stürmisch Bewegt]

Simplistic or simple?  We have always been a violent culture.  We are more so now and the greater availability of guns facilitates it:  well over 393 million of them abroad in the U.S.  I thought the NRA assured us that the greater availability of weapons would actually cut-down on deaths?  Just one more of their lies. 

[Stürmisch Bewegt]

Forget baseball.  This is now America's pastime; one thing about the Gun God, the more he consumes, the hungrier he gets.  (And He grins as more frightened Americans go out and buy more guns, thinking to protect themselves, when those are the very instruments of their execution).

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/indianapolis-fedex-shooting-04-16-21-intl-hnk/index.html

[Que]

As long as the majority of Americans cling to the idea that owning a gun is their god given right that will give them freedom and protection, nothing will ever change.

[SimonNZ]

Heh. The thread had been two weeks dormant and you chose to give it a nudge.

No one to blame but yourself now.

[MusicTurner]

Biden gets a lot of mostly good press here in DK, due to the at times surprisingly leftist, social welfare policies, the overall efficiency, and the re-establishing of some of the former foreign policy ties.

[Que]

Heh. The thread had been two weeks dormant and you chose to give it a nudge.

No one to blame but yourself now.

I see.... Just admit you missed it. 

[drogulus]

Biden gets a lot of mostly good press here in DK, due to the at times surprisingly leftist, social welfare policies, the overall efficiency, and the re-establishing of some of the former foreign policy ties.

     FDR was a conservative Dem in 1932. He wanted to balance the budget. Like Biden he was more a pragmatist than a dogmatist. Both met the circumstances of their time.

     The purpose of money is to throw at problems, not to run out of when it's needed. Sen. Scott tried last night to get the run out meme circulating again. It seemed like something from another era.

[Karl Henning]

"But all politicians lie!"

"Why is the MSM given Biden a pass?!"

No one imagines that Biden speaks nothing but truth—but WHAT a difference from the pathological liar/disinformer we had before:
"Through April 26, Biden has made 67 false or misleading statements, according to a Washington Post Fact Checker analysis of every speech, interview, tweet or public statement made by the president. That compares to 511 such statements in Trump's first 100 days."

[SimonNZ]

What are some examples of the sort of statements they are counting as "false or misleading" from Biden?

I'm doubting they could be compared to any 67 of Trumps.