Author Topic: USA Politics (redux)  (Read 123811 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2880 on: August 29, 2021, 01:08:55 AM »
I am 100 % in favor of Biden's actions so far, although I freely admit that is based on my absolute belief that getting out of there is absolutely the right thing to do.

The American lefties I have been following for years (althou much less this year) agree with you. They have been criticizing Biden a lot for not being lefty enough, but with this they give him 100 % support.
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Offline milk

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2881 on: August 29, 2021, 03:19:21 AM »
She is a Democrat.  As far as most Republicans think all Democrats suck.  The reason I know this is because up to the age of fifty I was a conservative Republican and that is the way I use to think.  One of the many reasons I am no longer a Republican is that I got to know Democrats and I discovered that they were not the jerks they were made out to be.
I'm not a republican. I think Biden can win again. Harris was a terrible candidate when she ran in the primaries; hence her early exit. She had no original positions and she seems very corporate and middle-of-the-road to me. She communicates badly, i.e. she seems insincere and not particularly smart. I thought Warren was a much better candidate even though she also sort of tanked herself with some bad life choices. But when Warren speaks in the senate, she knows what she's talking about and she has a mission. Harris's mission is herself and she's not a particularly good advocate of herself.

As for "losing" or "failing," think about it as you will. My only point is that the thing has been a mess for years and I don't expect any president to make it look good on the way out. I don't know, I assume there are things Biden could have done better but I still give him high marks for sticking to this withdrawal.

Offline arpeggio

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2882 on: August 29, 2021, 10:10:56 AM »
I just saw Lindsey Graham make a prediction on CBS.

He predicted that all sorts of horrible things were going to happen in Afghanistan. 

Really? Did you figure that all by yourself or did your mommy and daddy help.

Of course all sorts of horrible stuff are going to happen in Afghanistan.  I would be stunned if all sorts of horrible stuff did not happen.

I have been wracking by brains trying to think of any campaign going back to the Battle of Kadesh in 1274BC trying to find one were the loser did not suffer negative consequences.  Sometimes the winner suffers as much as the loser.

The Duke of Wellington said, "Nothing except a battle lost can be as half so melancholy as a battle won."

Even great leaders can make bad decisions which may result in a catastrophe .  Look at all of the Confederate Soldiers who were slaughtered at Pickett's Charge when Lee made the decision to attack the Union Center at Gettysburg.  A lot more than a dozen.

 

« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 07:09:40 AM by arpeggio »

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2883 on: August 29, 2021, 10:14:23 AM »
Now that he's no longer playing golf with doofus, Lindsey is struggling for relevance.
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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2884 on: August 29, 2021, 10:20:14 AM »
Now that he's no longer playing golf with doofus, Lindsey is struggling for relevance.

I think my favorite two faced Linsey moment was when he said that he was through with Trump and then later that week he was in Air Force One with him! :D

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2885 on: August 29, 2021, 10:21:59 AM »
I think my favorite two faced Linsey moment was when he said that he was through with Trump and then later that week he was in Air Force One with him! :D

Yep!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Iota

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2886 on: August 29, 2021, 10:44:24 AM »
The Duke of Wellington said, "Nothing except a battle lost can be as half so melancholy as a battle won."

What a striking and moving quote! Hadn't heard it before, thanks for posting.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2887 on: August 30, 2021, 12:09:17 AM »
I just saw Lindsey Graham make a prediction on CBS.

He predicted that all sorts of horrible things were going to happen in Afghanistan.

How much did the US main stream media talk about Afganistan last year? Taliban didn't exist last year? Taliban didn't control half the country? The second Biden did something the military industry complex and imperialists do not like, all eyes are on what happens in Afganistan. Yes, horrible things will happen in Afganistan. Has been happening all the time. Lindsey Graham just didn't care until now, because he collects cheques from the military industry complex.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:11:32 AM by 71 dB »
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2888 on: August 30, 2021, 12:30:59 AM »
How much did the US main stream media talk about Afganistan last year?


Why not try answering your own question? Go to the sites of what you think of as "mainstream media" and search for articles on Afghanistan from 2020. You might be surprised

It's possible though that there was some other stuff going on in 2020 that pushed it off the front page.

And just how much did your preferred YT infotainment jesters have to say about Afghanistan last year?

Oh and could I please have a source with some specific details about the cheques Lindsay Graham is getting from the "military industry [sic] complex"?


Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2889 on: August 30, 2021, 12:55:09 AM »
Why not try answering your own question? Go to the sites of what you think of as "mainstream media" and search for articles on Afghanistan from 2020. You might be surprised

It's possible though that there was some other stuff going on in 2020 that pushed it off the front page.

And just how much did your preferred YT infotainment jesters have to say about Afghanistan last year?

Oh and could I please have a source with some specific details about the cheques Lindsay Graham is getting from the "military industry [sic] complex"?

Wow. I tried to come back to this thread, but clearly I am not wanted here. I am out.

(for example in 2015-2016 alone Lindsay Graham got $45,886 from Boeing (part of military industry complex), but since you don't even want to believe ANYTHING I say why do I bother. I don't know on what planet you live on. I am out).
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2890 on: August 30, 2021, 01:31:59 AM »
That's part of what I asked for. But I still want a source.

Offline arpeggio

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2891 on: August 30, 2021, 05:39:36 AM »
He who is not guilty caste the first stone. 

At one time even I thought that maybe the United States could have won in Afghanistan.  I was wrong.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2892 on: August 30, 2021, 05:41:39 AM »
He who is not guilty caste the first stone. 

At one time even I thought that maybe the United States could have won in Afghanistan.  I was wrong.

You weren't alone, though I was not in that number.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2893 on: September 01, 2021, 10:51:07 AM »
There are two "con" opinions against this "pro" in the Globe.

Sirhan should be paroled

By Rachelle G. Cohen Globe Staff, Updated August 31, 2021, 3:20 p.m.

There are moments so tragic they are seared in memory. The 1968 assassination of Robert F. Kennedy — on whom so many of us had pinned so many youthful hopes — was one of them. Coming just two months after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., it was a second punch to the gut and a sign the world had truly gone mad.

No, I’ll never forget, and I’ll never forgive his assassin, Sirhan Sirhan, for robbing my generation of a hero, for taking away all the might-have-beens — and for robbing a family of a husband and a father.

But parole — as recently recommended by California parole commissioners for Sirhan — isn’t about forgiveness. It isn’t a pardon; it doesn’t erase the record.

And heaven help us if it ever becomes about politics.

Parole is and always has been based on rehabilitation, the expression of remorse, and the likelihood of an inmate to re-offend. It shouldn’t matter if the victim was a Kennedy or a Smith or a Jones. It shouldn’t matter whether my dreams were shattered, a nation was deprived of a future leader, and a passel of kids were left fatherless.

What should matter is whether justice is being served, whether this particular prisoner is being treated any differently than the guy in the next cell with the same record of spotless behavior, the same likelihood not to pose a future risk to public safety.

Sirhan was 24 at the time he shot then-presidential contender Robert Kennedy — a moment captured on live television as the world and at least one of his sons watched. Sirhan claims not to remember much of that night and concedes that he had been drinking. His defense team made the case that he was mentally ill at the time of the shooting, and experts brought in by the prosecution agreed.

But he went to trial nevertheless, was found guilty of first-degree murder, and sentenced to death in 1969. When California eliminated the death penalty in 1972, he was re-sentenced to life in prison. However, as Parole Board Commissioner Robert Barton said at Sirhan’s hearing, “If you were sentenced to life without parole that would be a different matter, but you were sent to life with parole.”

In fact, Sirhan has been eligible for parole since 1975. He’s now 77 and has been behind bars for 53 years; this was his 16th parole hearing.

“Over half a century has passed,” Sirhan told the two parole commissioners, “and that young, impulsive kid I was does not exist anymore. . . . Senator Kennedy was the hope of the world and I injured, and I harmed all of them, and it pains me to experience that, the knowledge for such a horrible deed.”

His lawyer noted in her brief that Sirhan has had no disciplinary violations since 1972. In fact, three correction officers filed letters of support on his behalf, and Barton said, “We saw the improvement that you’ve made,” noting Sirhan has enrolled in more than 20 prison programs.

The parole board is also required, under a 2018 law, to take into account that Sirhan was a youthful offender at the time of sentencing, had suffered childhood trauma as a Christian Palestinian refugee, and that he now qualifies for “elderly parole,” having served more than 20 years and being well over the required age of 50.

“You have my pledge. I will always look to safety and peace and nonviolence,” Sirhan told the hearing officers.

Our nation’s corrections system is based on the concept that rehabilitation works and remorse counts for something. Parole is held out as the potential reward for doing the right thing. If it is denied for political reasons, it becomes meaningless.

The decision by the two-member panel to grant Sirhan parole now goes to the full parole board, and if they support the decision, the matter ultimately goes to Governor Gavin Newsom.

No one is asking any of those officials to forgive Sirhan’s crime and certainly not to forget the price this nation paid for it. But none of that should matter. For the parole board, Sirhan Sirhan should be just another prisoner who played by the rules — no more, but no less.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2894 on: September 02, 2021, 01:22:24 PM »
He who is not guilty caste the first stone. 

At one time even I thought that maybe the United States could have won in Afghanistan.  I was wrong.

Won? What is there to win? What would winning mean? It's frickin' Afghanistan. Do you want a cut of the opium trade?
 

Offline arpeggio

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2895 on: September 03, 2021, 07:26:38 PM »
Won? What is there to win? What would winning mean? It's frickin' Afghanistan. Do you want a cut of the opium trade?

Without going into details, I will admit I was wrong.  What else do you want? A person can not admit he made a mistake around here? Give me a break.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2896 on: September 04, 2021, 03:37:13 AM »
He who is not guilty caste the first stone. 

At one time even I thought that maybe the United States could have won in Afghanistan.  I was wrong.

The militaristic way the US does nation building and imperialism is old-fashioned. The new way is to invest in infrastructure and economy and that way "own" the country. That's what China is doing and whether we like it or not it is working.
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Offline Fëanor

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2897 on: September 04, 2021, 04:31:55 AM »
The militaristic way the US does nation building and imperialism is old-fashioned. The new way is to invest in infrastructure and economy and that way "own" the country. That's what China is doing and whether we like it or not it is working.

This is scarily true.  A few things are notable re. China's approach:
  • The governments of the countries targeted are relatively stable
  • China has the anterior motive of securing natural resources
  • Chinese workers as well as managers and engineers are often used to do the major work with lessor input from native workers.
In some respects China's approach more closely resembles British & French imperialism of the latter 19th century than the USA's 20th century neo-imperialism.  Direct control of natural resource is probably the most notable aspect.  That is, China wants direct control versus just preferred market access.

Offline krummholz

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2898 on: September 05, 2021, 05:14:04 AM »
I'm not a republican. I think Biden can win again. Harris was a terrible candidate when she ran in the primaries; hence her early exit. She had no original positions and she seems very corporate and middle-of-the-road to me. She communicates badly, i.e. she seems insincere and not particularly smart. I thought Warren was a much better candidate even though she also sort of tanked herself with some bad life choices. But when Warren speaks in the senate, she knows what she's talking about and she has a mission. Harris's mission is herself and she's not a particularly good advocate of herself.

As for "losing" or "failing," think about it as you will. My only point is that the thing has been a mess for years and I don't expect any president to make it look good on the way out. I don't know, I assume there are things Biden could have done better but I still give him high marks for sticking to this withdrawal.

It isn't just that Biden's withdrawal was messy and didn't look good. It's not even that the way he handled the withdrawal made lots of people question his competence. The most serious consequence IMO is that the US government failed to live up to its promises to thousands of Afghans who cooperated with the coalition campaign, acted as interpreters, intelligence assets, etc. The sad fact is that The US will be on the ground again somewhere, someday soon (we actually have been all along), these campaigns require support and cooperation from ordinary people in the local area, and this debacle is going to make it much harder for anyone to ever trust us again.

It's bad enough that Trump did such huge damage to the US's reputation on the world stage, but he was a novice who refused to learn, so that was predictable and he could plausibly be written off as a one-off. But for a seasoned professional like Biden to follow up with more damage, when many of us who voted for him expected him to repair the damage Trump caused, is very bad news indeed.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #2899 on: September 05, 2021, 05:45:00 AM »
1. The most serious consequence IMO is that the US government failed to live up to its promises to thousands of Afghans who cooperated with the coalition campaign, acted as interpreters, intelligence assets, etc.

2. But for a seasoned professional like Biden to follow up with more damage, when many of us who voted for him expected him to repair the damage Trump caused, is very bad news indeed.

1. Those "promises" never were much more than empty words.

2. The damage was done 2 decades ago by the Bush administration when the US went to Afganistan. Biden had the guts to cut the losses of a war without clear realistic goals. The left praises him for that. Obama didn't have the guts. Trump didn't have the guts. Biden has the guts and I give him credit for that. It's crazy to think the US really cares about the rights of women in Afganistan while the US itself is turning slowly into "the handmaiden's tale" (e.g. the new abortion laws in Texas).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:49:14 AM by 71 dB »
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