USA Politics (redux)

Started by bhodges, November 10, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

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Mirror Image

#80
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 11, 2020, 10:01:50 AM
Headline today, giving the lie to the "the policies matter, the character doesn't" enablers:

Chaotic presidential transition brings vulnerability, security risks to nation

read: Trump being an asshole brings vulnerability, security risks to nation

It's certainly discerning to say the least. Just for the record, I'm not a Republican or Democrat, but I do feel that I'm a centrist in that I'm not onboard with the extremism of both parties (i. e. the far right/left). I do feel that Biden is more of the man for the job than Trump ever will be. If anything, let's hope he handles this COVID crisis with more care than the do nothing currently in office. I do think he will also help restore our place in the world, which we should be seen as an ally not an enemy and certainly not the butt end of a joke. Patching things up with China and France would be a good start.

drogulus

Quote from: 71 dB on November 11, 2020, 12:59:09 PM
You're welcome.

99.999 %  ;D Well, perhaps a little lower than that, but Finland is one of the most democratic/least corrupt* countries in the world.

* Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) puts Finland at place 3 (2019) behind Denmark and New Zealand sharing the first place. The US is at place 23 and Romania 70. Somalia is considered the most corrupt of all countries.

     If I insist that Romania should be #5 do I have to get a new passport?
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Karl Henning

Quote from: drogulus on November 11, 2020, 02:14:56 PM
    Trump is ill-suited to be a dictator for the same reasons he is ill suited to be leader of anything other than his own rather dubious enterprises that were built to contain him. His admiration and desire to emulate dictators and not quite-tators is pronounced, though.

His navel-gazing ineptitude notwithstanding, he's a bad precedent.  Our government only works when the actors are in good faith.

America's Next Authoritarian Will Be Much More Competent
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

T. D.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 11, 2020, 02:45:14 PM
His navel-gazing ineptitude notwithstanding, he's a bad precedent.  Our government only works when the actors are in good faith.

America's Next Authoritarian Will Be Much More Competent

That's a good article. Sadly.

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

JBS

Quote from: drogulus on November 11, 2020, 01:47:27 PM
     
     You are not an absolutist, so you may not recognize the kind of argument that treats categories as entirely distinct entities in themselves. Is Putin a dictator, or Duterte? Does the category of illiberal democracy "exist", or is it shorthand for a set of characteristics often found together, as is the case with fascism, if that's what fascism is. What form of government does Hungary have, as differentiated from what is practiced there?

     Next: The problem of universals, threat or menace?

Nominally a threat.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Dowder on November 11, 2020, 04:28:23 PM
Another senate victory for the GOP today. I fully expect the two Georgia seats to go red in January as the Dem power grab gets exposed further. I take it that Biden may still be the president after all the court challenges and recounting but once your bugaboo Trump is gone I doubt you'll get half the blue voters to turn out in the midterms. Meanwhile, MAGA is strong and growing in numbers. 

May God grant Trump health and vitality to get his presidency back in 2024. If he cannot run again, the Republicans will be ok so long as they stick with the populist agenda.

It's nice to have a dream.

I see the postal worker who initially charged all sorts of post office voter fraud in Erie PA recanted his story and admitted he made the whole thing up. I also see the cases which have gone to court now stand at 0 wins, 10 losses.

Curious how that power grab thing is going to play out. Other than you and Louis Gohmert I haven't seen anyone else buying into it much. It is a con to raise more money from the gullible people out there who subscribe to the T***p Cult of Personality.

When it runs out of steam, as it will (soon), then a new con will arise. When you are dealing with petty grifters, cons are the only thing you can expect.

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Herman

Quote from: Florestan on November 11, 2020, 11:42:01 AM
Seriously now, I am a disinterested third party from another country (I borrow this apt phrase from another poster) --- with a twist: I was born and raised in a country named the Socialist Republic of Romania which was a Communist dictatorship ever since it was proclaimed (December 30, 1947) until it fell (December 22, 1989). I know from personal experience exactly and precisely what a dictatorship is and looks like, and how a dictator behaves. With all due respect --- and actually very fortunately and very good for them --- not a single any other GMGer currently active can say that, with one possible exception (member pi2000). As such, it is my firm conviction that neither was Donald Trump a dictator nor did he try to become one, and that at no time between January 20, 2017 and January 20, 2020 did the USA have the slightest resemblance to a dictatorship in the making, let alone a full-fledged one.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this unique perspective of yours.

Also it presupposes the notion that denizens of former Soviet satellite states are fundamentally better prepared for democracy and unfortunately there is not much on the ground evidence for that. Too many of those countries are still relatively weak in that respect.

Herman

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 11, 2020, 04:36:52 PM
It's nice to have a dream.

I see the postal worker who initially charged all sorts of post office voter fraud in Erie PA recanted his story and admitted he made the whole thing up.

Of all places in Erie PA?

The town Trump said he would never go to?

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Dowder on November 11, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
Stay tuned, Gurn. This election was like no other due to the vote by mail ballots being shipped out everywhere. Clearly a Dem strategy to win.

That Penn St postal worker has denied he recanted and has been suspended without pay for not staying quiet about the power grab. 

Biden may wind up as president but let the process work itself out. I do take heart in the GOP gains in the house and the chance to have 52 senate seats. At the very least the nutty left wing agenda won't come to fruition.

Well, we will just have to see. I have to assume from your statements here that your position is that anyone who is to your left is per definitionem part of the "nutty left wing". Which is interesting, since for the many years I was 'right of center', half the Republican party was left of me, and now, though I haven't moved at all, 3/4 of the Republican party is to my right. It is cool, in its own way, that now I have finally reached the age where I am one of those wicked Lefties again.  :D :D

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

I found this article interesting. About 2 years ago, I created a fake email address which I trolled through T***pLand so they would start me on their mailing list. It took almost 10 minutes to get my first letter, but they have come in a steady stream, nay, a raging torrent, since then. Over the last week, I have been getting ~20 emails a day. So I did some looking around in news organizations I have some confidence in to find some background about them. [url-https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309]This article [/url]was in Reuters:

Quote(Reuters) - As President Donald Trump seeks to discredit last week's election with baseless claims of voter fraud, his team has bombarded his supporters with requests for money to help pay for legal challenges to the results: "The Left will try to STEAL this election!" reads one text. But any small-dollar donations from Trump's grassroots donors won't be going to legal expenses at all, according to a Reuters review of the legal language in the solicitations.

A donor would have to give more than $8,000 before any money goes to the "recount account" established to finance election challenges, including recounts and lawsuits over alleged improprieties, the fundraising disclosures show.

The emailed solicitations send supporters to an "Official Election Defense Fund" website that asks them to sign up for recurring donations to "protect the results and keep fighting even after Election Day."

The fine print makes clear most of the money will go to other priorities.

A large portion of the money goes to "Save America," a Trump leadership PAC, or political action committee, set up on Monday, and the Republican National Committee (RNC). Under Federal Election Commission rules, both groups have broad leeway in how they can use the funds.

The Trump campaign, the RNC and Trump's new Save America PAC did not respond to requests for comment.

Leadership PACs such as Save America are often set up by prominent political figures to spend money on other candidates, while also paying for personal expenses, such as travel and hotel stays.

The disclosures would allow Trump and the RNC to channel the donations into other political causes or campaigns, such as the two high-stakes January Senate runoff races in Georgia that could determine control of the Senate and are likely to rank among the most expensive races in U.S. history.

Trump's solicitation website carries a banner headline that says "OFFICIAL ELECTION DEFENSE FUND" and "CONTRIBUTE NOW."

Scrolling down the page would take a donor to the fine print, which shows that donations are split between "Save America," which gets 60% of the money, and the RNC, which gets the other 40%. None of the money flows to Trump's official "recount" committee fund until Trump's Save America share reaches the legal contribution limit of $5,000, according to the disclosures.

That means that, before a dollar goes into the recount fund, Save America would receive $5,000 and the RNC around $3,300. Donations to the recount committee are legally limited to $2,800.

If a Trump donor gave $500, for instance, $300 would go to Trump's Save America PAC, $200 would to the RNC - and nothing would go to his election defense fund.

One Republican political strategist said Trump is misleading supporters who might give small donations to whatever cause he approves.

"It's important to be up front with people - especially those who are digging deep into their pockets to come up with $25," said Michael DuHaime, a former political director at the RNC. "If you tell them it's going for legal fees, well then it should go for legal fees."

If you still haven't figured it out, this is yet another example of the fleecing of America. It is how the man works.

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

bhodges

Another adult scheduled to arrive at the White House: Ron Klain as Chief of Staff. "His deep, varied experience and capacity to work with people all across the political spectrum is precisely what I need in a White House chief of staff as we confront this moment of crisis and bring our country together again."

https://buildbackbetter.com/press-releases/president-elect-joe-biden-names-ron-klain-as-white-house-chief-of-staff/

--Bruce

JBS

Quote from: Brewski on November 11, 2020, 06:17:15 PM
Another adult scheduled to arrive at the White House: Ron Klain as Chief of Staff. "His deep, varied experience and capacity to work with people all across the political spectrum is precisely what I need in a White House chief of staff as we confront this moment of crisis and bring our country together again."

https://buildbackbetter.com/press-releases/president-elect-joe-biden-names-ron-klain-as-white-house-chief-of-staff/

--Bruce
He has pandemic experience, having headed up Obama's Ebola team.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Karl Henning

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 11, 2020, 05:31:06 PM
I found this article interesting. About 2 years ago, I created a fake email address which I trolled through T***pLand so they would start me on their mailing list. It took almost 10 minutes to get my first letter, but they have come in a steady stream, nay, a raging torrent, since then. Over the last week, I have been getting ~20 emails a day. So I did some looking around in news organizations I have some confidence in to find some background about them. [url-https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309]This article [/url]was in Reuters:

If you still haven't figured it out, this is yet another example of the fleecing of America. It is how the man works.

8)

Yep. I guess some embrace the delusion.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Herman

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 11, 2020, 05:31:06 PM
I found this article interesting. About 2 years ago, I created a fake email address which I trolled through T***pLand so they would start me on their mailing list. It took almost 10 minutes to get my first letter, but they have come in a steady stream, nay, a raging torrent, since then.

That's heroic.

71 dB

#96
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 11, 2020, 02:18:15 PM
I do feel that I'm a centrist in that I'm not onboard with the extremism of both parties (i. e. the far right/left).

The left wing of the Dems is not that left really. They just look far left because the Overton Window has moved so right. Progressives have very sane and normal policies.

They want to save the planet while give people jobs with Green new deal. Are you not onboard saving the planet and giving people jobs?
They want to give everyone healthcare like every other developped country does. Are you not onboad?

Centrists are actually right-winger and the "right"- Biden is a right-winger. He does not believe everyone should have healthcare. That's RADICAL and VERY right-wing.

You should re-evaluate you opinions. Why do you have them? Corporate media?
Or don't do anything. What do I care. It's not my country we are talking about.
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Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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Daverz

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 11, 2020, 02:18:15 PM
It's certainly discerning to say the least. Just for the record, I'm not a Republican or Democrat, but I do feel that I'm a centrist in that I'm not onboard with the extremism of both parties (i. e. the far right/left).

Have to agree with 71 on this, ideologically the Democratic Party is at most center-left extending to center-right and even right wing (Chris Coons?).  I don't think even AOC believes the proletariat should seize the means of production.

Handelian

Quote from: Florestan on November 11, 2020, 11:42:01 AM
Seriously now, I am a disinterested third party from another country (I borrow this apt phrase from another poster) --- with a twist: I was born and raised in a country named the Socialist Republic of Romania which was a Communist dictatorship ever since it was proclaimed (December 30, 1947) until it fell (December 22, 1989). I know from personal experience exactly and precisely what a dictatorship is and looks like, and how a dictator behaves. With all due respect --- and actually very fortunately and very good for them --- not a single any other GMGer currently active can say that, with one possible exception (member pi2000). As such, it is my firm conviction that neither was Donald Trump a dictator nor did he try to become one, and that at no time between January 20, 2017 and January 20, 2020 did the USA have the slightest resemblance to a dictatorship in the making, let alone a full-fledged one.

Why Todd's post was considered trolling is beyon me, too. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.

Sorry mate, but you won't get any change out of those who are convinced that Trump was a dictator, even though any examination of his term of office shows how ludicrous such a charge is. The fact that he is uncouth and vulgar does not make a man a dictator, as he had the American constitution to contend with. The same ridiculous charge was levelled against our prime minister when he refused to answer the pointless and tiresome question from a tiresome and overpaid journalist. Just that these labels are very convenient and impress people of shallow thinking. Those of us who actually know some history about Romania will know the terrors of the regime there were simply horrific and far removed form anything most Americans could dream about. As one who has been to countries rules by dictatorships I can say the same. Say you don't like Trump by all means but please be more informed with your labels.

Herman

Quote from: 71 dB on November 12, 2020, 12:29:53 AM
Biden is a right-winger. He does not believe everyone should have healthcare. That's RADICAL and VERY right-wing.

You should re-evaluate you opinions. Why do you have them? Corporate media?
Or don't do anything. What do I care. It's not my country we are talking about.

This is sooo previous USA thread.

I agree with you about the Overton window, but why keep saying this?