USA Politics (redux)

Started by bhodges, November 10, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

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Herman

Quote from: Handelian on November 12, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
Sorry mate, but you won't get any change out of those who are convinced that Trump was a dictator, even though any examination of his term of office shows how ludicrous such a charge is.

I think people are saying Trump is trying to be a dictator and his party is not very good at stopping him.

Re "term of office": Trump has been musing publicly about a third or even fourth term for years. Just as he's now talking about a 2nd term even though the public has denied him this.

All these performative musings are part of his testing the waters for a power takeover, which most likely would fail anyway because he's failure personified.

However, if you're the Head of State, the things you say matter a lot (which is why in normal cases they don't say a lot).

Herman

#101
The NYTimes about Mike Pence:

"Mr. Pence's allies expect him to return to Indiana and make a living giving paid speeches and potentially writing a book. It will be the first time in a long time that Mr. Pence will live as a private citizen — he moved from the governor's mansion in Indiana to temporary housing in Washington during the presidential transition four years ago to the Naval Observatory. He currently does not own a house."

I can't imagine the crazy fan scenes if Pence (also called "Pounds" by Trump) were to give speeches, paid or not.

It's somehow strangely characteristic that the Pences have been living in public housing for like, aeons, and don't own their own home.

Just as he does not want to meet or talk with women other than his wife (aka "Mother") I expect he thinks being in one's own home is an incitement to ungodly thoughts. It's cheaper as well, just like not having lunch with a woman person.

Sterna

Quote from: Herman on November 12, 2020, 01:18:33 AM
This is sooo previous USA thread.

You must be joking.

All bs here is sooo previous USA thread(s).

I did check Joe Biden on Presto Classical. Couldn't find anything.



He's not going to do a duetto disc with Donald Trump?

Pity.


71 dB

Quote from: Daverz on November 12, 2020, 01:02:39 AM
Have to agree with 71 on this,

Good for you!  ;)

Quote from: Daverz on November 12, 2020, 01:02:39 AMideologically the Democratic Party is at most center-left extending to center-right and even right wing (Chris Coons?).  I don't think even AOC believes the proletariat should seize the means of production.

Yep. AOC is clear about what she advocates. People should listen to her instead of Ben Shapiro about what she is advocating. Oligarchs don't pay Ben Shapiro to be factually correct about AOC, but to fearmonger.

Quote from: Herman on November 12, 2020, 01:18:33 AM
This is sooo previous USA thread.

I agree with you about the Overton window, but why keep saying this?

Because people seem to keep forgetting  the Overton window and where it is.
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Herman

Quote from: Handelian on November 12, 2020, 02:53:21 AM
For goodness sake, every president of the United States I have ever seen has tried to be a dictator in the sense that they have tried to get their policies through. That is what presidents do. The reason they are not dictators is the Constitution of the United States which prevents that.I know Trump is not helping himself by the way he acts but all these conspiracy theories to me are ludicrous. He has every right to challenge the result according to the Constitution and the legal process will take its course. In the same way as the Democrats challenged the result of the 2016 election

Trying to get one's policies through doesn't make one a would be dictator.

Also, I don't think any US American could write or say the above.

There are a lot of non-Americans with very strong feelings or ideas about this, and I'm not sure this always helps.

Pohjolas Daughter

I've seen and heard various discussions as to what Pres. Trump's life might be like post-January 20th.  Here are some interesting things to ponder:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54875343

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

bhodges

Reminder: Please keep it civil, folks. We are moderating this thread more closely than in the past, and don't have patience for back-and-forth insults.

Thank you.

--Bruce

Zeus

#107
Hopefully, with Trump on his way out of office, and once the constant stream of lying dies down, we can take a look at some painful facts.

Like this one: the US health care system kinda sucks.



"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

drogulus

#108
     GOP leaders' embrace of Trump's refusal to concede fits pattern of rising authoritarianism, data shows

     It's now acceptable among some Repubs to express anti-democratic views. This puts Repubs in the position of competing in elections they don't regard as authentic. Elections that are a sham if they lose are a sham, period. They are not inexplicably genuine if the "right" side wins. By what process could such a thing happen?

     You are in a fog of belief if you choose to abandon objective criteria for partisan reasons. Repubs are in the position of appealing to election officials of their own party to "admit" that they have run crooked elections. Since no evidence is offered it's belief all the way down.
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Que

#109
Quote from: Zeus on November 12, 2020, 06:41:57 AM
Hopefully, with Trump on his way out of office, and once the constant stream of lying dies down, we can take a look at some painful facts.

Like this one: the US health care system kinda sucks.



Right. The most expensive and the least efficiënt amongst developed nations - check...

But you know that many in the US think that the US is so "unique" (exceptional) that a health care system with a universal/collective element in it is "not suitable". The best way of dealing with this kind of comparative statistics is to claim they do not apply to you. (Same with guns.... ) Besides, good and generally accessible and affordable health care reeks of socialism and is bad for share holders of insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

Karl Henning

Quote from: drogulus on November 12, 2020, 07:14:16 AM
     GOP leaders' embrace of Trump's refusal to concede fits pattern of rising authoritarianism, data shows

     It's now acceptable among some Repubs to express anti-democratic views. This puts Repubs in the position of competing in elections they don't regard as authentic. Elections that are a sham if they lose are a sham, period. They are not inexplicably genuine if the "right" side wins. By what process could such a thing happen?

     You are in a fog of belief if you choose to abandon objective criteria for partisan reasons. Repubs are in the position of appealing to election officials of their own party to "admit" that they have run crooked elections. Since no evidence is offered it's belief all the way down.

Ah, the right-wing disinformation ecosystem....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 12, 2020, 07:39:28 AM
Ah, the right-wing disinformation ecosystem....

     It's not just the Repubs who can't control their subjects. Putin isn't sure what instructions to issue. Q has gone dark, and his alter ego says he wants to spend more time with whatever people spend more time with. People who are not thinky are not knowing what to think. There's no muscle memory to draw on.
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BasilValentine

Quote from: Handelian on November 12, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
Sorry mate, but you won't get any change out of those who are convinced that Trump was a dictator, even though any examination of his term of office shows how ludicrous such a charge is. The fact that he is uncouth and vulgar does not make a man a dictator, as he had the American constitution to contend with. The same ridiculous charge was levelled against our prime minister when he refused to answer the pointless and tiresome question from a tiresome and overpaid journalist. Just that these labels are very convenient and impress people of shallow thinking. Those of us who actually know some history about Romania will know the terrors of the regime there were simply horrific and far removed form anything most Americans could dream about. As one who has been to countries rules by dictatorships I can say the same. Say you don't like Trump by all means but please be more informed with your labels.

Who said Trump was a dictator? Anyone we know? Anyone we've heard of?

71 dB

#113
Quote from: Que on November 12, 2020, 07:38:21 AM
But you know that many in the US think that the US is so "unique" (exceptional) that a health care system with a universal/collective element in it is "not suitable". The best way of dealing with this kind of comparative statistics is to claim they do not apply to you. (Same with guns.... ) Besides, good and generally accessible and affordable health care reeks of socialism and is bad for share holders of insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

What's "unique" with the US is the fact how the politicians (well, almost all of them anyway) serve the top 1 % instead of regular people, how corrupt the system is. That's the difference and the reason why American healthcare system is so different. Nothing else makes the US "not suitable." The main purpose of the US healthcare system is not to give people healthcare, but to maximize the profits for insurance and drug companies. If you look at the curves, the US is among the other countries up until late 70's and after that starts to go it's own way. Late 70's was when corruption was effectively made legal (Buckley v. Valeo: Money = $peech). If other countries are doing "socialism" and the US is doing "capitalism" we can easily see how "socialism" is superior to "capitalism" when it comes to healthcare. Capitalism is superior in many other things, but not here. Rational people look at empirical evidence. Single payer healthcare can have a lot of capitalism in it. The service providers can be private as they are in France or Canada for example. They important thing is public funding of those services ( =socialism according to right-wing fearmongers, but is actually social democracy). That's where the US system fails miserably because of utter corruption.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Karl Henning

David French: "The wave of initial vote fraud rumors has been decisively debunked, so now the president retreats to the farthest fringes of conspiracy theory, to the software vote fairy that magically changes the count."
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Zeus

#115
The US is pursuing "monopolism".

Pros: high profits, high asset prices, businesses catering to the top 10% to 20% are booming.

Cons: rising income and wealth inequality, stagnating industries, declining global competitiveness, declining living standards for the majority.
"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Herman on November 11, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
That's heroic.

Beyond which, it was eye-opening. If you only read the mainstream media, you saw just the tip of the BS iceberg. :D

8)
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Que

Quote from: 71 dB on November 12, 2020, 08:36:59 AM
That's where the US system fails miserably because of utter corruption.

I don't see any evidence of that level of corruption in the USA. I however do see a (traditionally) high level of distrust in government and an unwillingness to pay taxes. After all, US independence was not fought over the lofty ideals in the US Constitution, but over taxes to the British Crown.

Zeus

Once again the GOP ran up the federal deficit like drunken sailors; once again it falls on the Dems to restore fiscal sobriety.
"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

71 dB

Quote from: Zeus on November 12, 2020, 06:41:57 AMLike this one: the US health care system kinda sucks.



I just watched the Sandra Bullock movie "The Net" from 1995 on Blu-ray and in one scene it has demonstrators on street. One of the big signs had the test: "Healthcare is a human right, not a priviledge". It's now 25 years after the movie and that message is as relevant as ever, in fact more relevant because healthcare prices have been going up fast.

:P
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"