USA Politics (redux)

Started by bhodges, November 10, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

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drogulus

Quote from: BasilValentine on November 12, 2020, 08:17:01 AM
Who said Trump was a dictator? Anyone we know? Anyone we've heard of?

     Even if we gave him maximum credit for effort, Trump isn't a dictator. He's simply not up to it. To be fair, it would be difficult for anyone. Democratic states are designed to be deep enough to withstand assault by autocrats. It's not just a matter of form, it's how form and practice are fused. As an economist might say, the Constitution in the US is largely a "post facto identity", a compact to formalize a path already taken.

Quote from: Que on November 12, 2020, 08:46:26 AM
I don't see any evidence of that level of corruption in the USA. I however do see a (traditionally) high level of distrust in government and an unwillingness to pay taxes. After all, US independence was not fought over the lofty ideals in the US Constitution, but over taxes to the British Crown.

     I see very little unwillingness to pay taxes. It's something people complain about. Even I do that, though not about what I pay. I pay more when my income goes up, less when it goes down. Maybe I'd get angry if it was the reverse.
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71 dB

A dictator wannabe is not the same as a dictator! However, a dictator wannabe may someday become a real dictator and is therefor dangerous.

Quote from: Zeus on November 12, 2020, 08:48:43 AM
Once again the GOP ran up the federal deficit like drunken sailors; once again it falls on the Dems to restore fiscal sobriety.

Cenk Uygur of TYT used to be a Republican, but in mid 90's realized Republicans are lying when saying they are deficit hawks and started to question the whole Republican ideology. He found out it's all complete bs and became a leftist.
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Todd

It will soon be fashionable, again, to be a deficit hawk.  Can't wait.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Karl Henning

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 12, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
Beyond which, it was eye-opening. If you only read the mainstream media, you saw just the tip of the BS iceberg. :D

8)

I admit ... that was my suspicion.
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drogulus

Quote from: 71 dB on November 12, 2020, 08:59:11 AM

Cenk Uygur of TYT used to be a Republican, but in mid 90's realized Republicans are lying when saying they are deficit hawks and started to question the whole Republican ideology. He found out it's all complete bs and became a leftist.

     Every time I read a story like this I wonder why so few people claim to be religious in these troubled times.

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MusicTurner

#125
Quote from: drogulus on November 12, 2020, 09:16:53 AM
     Every time I read a story like this I wonder why so few people claim to be religious in these troubled times.

Well, some do:

Paula White, associated with #45 to a surprising degree, was pretty open about it just the other day, and it's an amazing clip that went viral:
https://twitter.com/JamesOlympics/status/1324344754465890304
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_White)

#45 afficionados praying outside election countings:
https://twitter.com/redcachenet/status/1324625963800432641

But others however, like Kenneth Copeland, show their (own) sense of humour. Another amazing clip.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1325513157926932480
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Copeland)





Gurn Blanston

Quote from: drogulus on November 12, 2020, 08:56:05 AM
         I see very little unwillingness to pay taxes. It's something people complain about. Even I do that, though not about what I pay. I pay more when my income goes up, less when it goes down. Maybe I'd get angry if it was the reverse.

This jibes well with my own observations and sentiments. I don't mind paying taxes, they are needed to accomplish so many of the basic necessities, if for no other reason. I am not going to manufacture my own water and sewage systems, for example.

But like most other private citizens, we want to pay only our fair share, and we want everyone else to also pay their fair share. That's what the resistance comes from. If I make $40k and pay my taxes, and you make 2 billion and end up paying less than I do, then yes, I'm pretty f**king pissed. Anyone who wasn't would be some sort of saint, or else deficient on some front.

8)
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BasilValentine

Quote from: Florestan on November 12, 2020, 08:46:59 AM
Yes.

Sorry, neither of those quotations qualify. in the first instance the term is part of a fanciful metaphorical characterization of Trump's last days in office, the second statement said dictator wannabe. Try again.   

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 12, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
This jibes well with my own observations and sentiments. I don't mind paying taxes, they are needed to accomplish so many of the basic necessities, if for no other reason. I am not going to manufacture my own water and sewage systems, for example.

But like most other private citizens, we want to pay only our fair share, and we want everyone else to also pay their fair share. That's what the resistance comes from. If I make $40k and pay my taxes, and you make 2 billion and end up paying less than I do, then yes, I'm pretty f**king pissed...
+1
Pohjolas Daughter

drogulus

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 12, 2020, 09:41:39 AM


But like most other private citizens, we want to pay only our fair share, and we want everyone else to also pay their fair share. That's what the resistance comes from. If I make $40k and pay my taxes, and you make 2 billion and end up paying less than I do, then yes, I'm pretty f**king pissed. Anyone who wasn't would be some sort of saint, or else deficient on some front.

8)

     I'm not immune to the fairness argument. I just see it as secondary to my main concern, which is the synergy between efforts to raise income at lower levels and the ability of the economy to grow robustly. A growth policy will raise low incomes, an income policy will raise growth. Tax policy is one lever, spending the other. I observe we get our useful ideas of what's fair from the realization of how things work.
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vandermolen

Quote from: Brewski on November 10, 2020, 03:54:22 PM
It's going to provide comedians, writers, and filmmakers with comedy for years. Exhibit A: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyh2xPrFvo&fbclid

--Bruce

V. funny!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#131
Quote from: Zeus on November 12, 2020, 06:41:57 AM
Hopefully, with Trump on his way out of office, and once the constant stream of lying dies down, we can take a look at some painful facts.

Like this one: the US health care system kinda sucks.



Is this total spending or only govt spending?
If the healthcare spending decreases in a subsequent year, does the mark still proceed rightward or retreat leftward?

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on November 11, 2020, 06:50:14 AM
As I was telling Dave (SonicMan) in the 'Missing Members' thread, it's scary to think how much more damage Trump can do since he's still in office and can't be ousted legally until January.

Yes, as an outsider surely this is an argument for not having such a long gap between the election itself and the new President being sworn in. Personally I admire the way that Biden is dealing with it by, apparently, just getting on with the job and good for George W. for referring to Trump as the 'former President' and congratulating Biden.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: vandermolen on November 12, 2020, 10:37:25 AM
Yes, as an outsider surely this is an argument for not having such a long gap between the election itself and the new President being sworn in. Personally I admire the way that Biden is dealing with it by, apparently, just getting on with the job and good for George W. for referring to Trump as the 'former President' and congratulating Biden.
Yes, I was pleased to see George W. doing the correct, civil, kind and smart thing to do; now if that would just get through the head of our current president!  ::)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

bhodges

Quote from: vandermolen on November 12, 2020, 10:27:52 AM
V. funny!

;D

Like many (I suspect), I have already found a photo of that Four Seasons Total Landscaping garage door, to use as a virtual Zoom background.

--Bruce

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brewski on November 12, 2020, 10:43:57 AM
;D

Like many (I suspect), I have already found a photo of that Four Seasons Total Landscaping garage door, to use as a virtual Zoom background.

--Bruce
:laugh:  I couldn't believe that story when I first heard it; I thought "This has got to be a joke!"  At least the business is making some money off of it.  ;D

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/four-seasons-total-landscaping-enjoying-163131224.html
Pohjolas Daughter

Todd

Quote from: vandermolen on November 12, 2020, 10:37:25 AMYes, as an outsider surely this is an argument for not having such a long gap between the election itself and the new President being sworn in.

It was already moved up to January from March in the 30s.  We just need another Constitutional Amendment to move it up any further.  As it stands, it could not be earlier than the first day of the first session of a new Congress since under certain circumstances Congress would have to choose the president.  There is a lower probability of this being changed than the Electoral College being abolished.


Quote from: Florestan on November 12, 2020, 10:54:53 AMIt only took me five minutes, including the copypaste and inserting the quote brackets.

It is a bit interesting how people who were previously quite certain that Trump would steal the election - a definitively dictatorial action - now never believed such things.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: drogulus on November 12, 2020, 10:21:51 AM
     I'm not immune to the fairness argument. I just see it as secondary to my main concern, which is the synergy between efforts to raise income at lower levels and the ability of the economy to grow robustly. A growth policy will raise low incomes, an income policy will raise growth. Tax policy is one lever, spending the other. I observe we get our useful ideas of what's fair from the realization of how things work.

Whilst that is all true, the question at hand was that a non-American was saying that he felt he could see that Americans don't want to pay taxes. The fairness argument is a lot more on point than some esoteric income leveling policy, which in 69 years on this planet, I have yet to see brought forward by anyone in everyday life. The 2 issues are:

  • Fairness
  • Irresponsible spending by the government

No one I have spoken to (amazingly, really) has ever said a word about income leveling. Not that they shouldn't, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't contribute substantially to the reluctance to pay taxes expressed by some. Just sayin'...

8)
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Florestan

Quote from: Todd on November 12, 2020, 11:05:00 AM
It is a bit interesting how people who were previously quite certain that Trump would steal the election - a definitively dictatorial action - now never believed such things.

Btw, any news yet of those storm troops which were ready to wreak havoc on the Election Day by intimidating voters and quite possibly even shooting some of them?
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Que

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