USA Politics (redux)

[Pohjolas Daughter]

     The election was not a referendum on Trump's attempt to steal the election. The high turnout is not a sign that he'll fail. If he fails it will be because responsible people in the right places stopped him. That's what I think will happen. People will follow the law and that will be the end of it.

     But let's be clear that Trump had a plan prepared that might have worked if it had come down to a single state and a smaller number of votes.

You lost me there.  Of course the election wasn't a referendum on Trump's attempt to steal the election.

In any event, like you, I think that at least 98% or more of the electors will vote the way that their constituents indicated (from what I recall reading, there are often one or two who are swayed by a phone call to go over to the other party).  I just hope that the GSA will feel like she now has the needed voting results to move ahead with the ascertainment.  It's crazy that particularly in the midst of a pandemic that this is dragging on for so long.  I'm sure that she feels under a lot of pressure to be fair.  I read an interesting article on her recently.


Here:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/politics/biden-transition-trump-delay/index.html

And this is an article/interview with a former GSA:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/politics/david-barram-gsa-2020-election-cnntv/index.html

PD

[71 dB]

The crazy Trump & Giuliani Show we are "enjoying" has been paid for by Trump supporters who delusionally think this election can be overturned for Trump and donate money for the cause. Both Trump and Giuliani know this is over, but why not extract as much money as possible from the fools before leaving the White House? Coming up with new plans to throw away votes from Democrat-leaning areas keep the donations coming.

Of course this kind of dangerous freak show should never happen in a democracy, but the US is what it is. A nation without a cultural concensus about the vision for the future. Half of the country wants to save the past while the other half wants to save the future. In this tug or war the country is stuck in present time.

My 2 cents (0.02 euros because I am European, not American).

[Herman]

Of course this kind of dangerous freak show should never happen in a democracy, but the US is what it is. A nation without a cultural concensus about the vision for the future. Half of the country wants to save the past while the other half wants to save the future.

This is the case in many nations. Unanimity does not equal democracy.

[Florestan]

this kind of dangerous freak show should never happen in a democracy

On the contrary, it could happen only in a democracy, especially in an extremely legalistic one such as the USA. By its very nature a monarchy --- be it constitutional or absolute --- has a much more natural and frictionless transition: The King is Dead, Long Live the King!. Not to mention the cases when mad kings where replaced by regents / regencies or sane kings were forced to abdicate --- and none of them raised the slightest objection. 

And frankly I would just love to watch live Trump being forcefully evicted from the White House, a clear sign that the rule of law reigns supreme in the USA despite oh the so numerous claims to the contrary here on GMG.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

If you check here, you can see the letter that the Democrats sent to GSA Emily Murphy basically demanding her to get back to them by Monday explaining why she hadn't recognized Biden and Harris as the winners.  One thing that I found very interesting in it (pages 2-3) was that Pres. Trump had quietly changed the order of succession within the GSA department now to include the General Council as fourth in line.  He did this on Sept. 2, 2020.  Then less than a week before the election, Pres. Trump installed Trent J. Benishek as the new GSA General Council.  Then they wonder whether or not she might being subjected to undue pressure from the White House to block the ascertainment.

Quite eyeopening!  Note:  doesn't take that long to read (only 3-page letter).

Rep. Gerry Connolly posted the letter on his Twitter account:  https://twitter.com/GerryConnolly/status/1329594898601926659/photo/1

There are footnotes showing links to where it shows Pres. Trump making the changes to the succession, etc.

PD

[Todd]

On the contrary, it could happen only in a democracy, especially in an extremely legalistic one such as the USA.

Yep.  And it was great.  It seems unlikely that 2022 or 2024 will be quite so wonderfully entertaining.

It is apparently lost on many people that 2020 reinforced how healthy democracy is in the United States.  Turnout was massive.  Large numbers of contests at all levels were close.  Republicans were able to flip seats in some big cities - including New York.  Right in line with Dem desires, the candidates offered were more diverse than normal - from both parties.  Fears of Russian and Chinese (and Iranian!) interference bubbled up here and there in a few sensationalist press stories, but they kind of fizzled.  Gobs and gobs of money were spent everywhere, and fortunately Dems wasted tens of millions based on shoddy polling and organization.  (Someone should probably explain why Amy McGrath should have been funneled so much money when she was just a tomato can.)  And the end result is, yes, Congressional gridlock!  There will be no sweeping repudiations of the Constitution like Dems and "Progressives" the world over have been clamoring for - eg, packing the court - and instead the US will lurch back to a more institutionalist type of administration.  I do wonder which poor country the new administration will bomb first.

[drogulus]

     The poor country that is most bombed is the US. Trumpists have inflicted a huge total of excess deaths, though the exact toll won't ever be known. We can produce estimates from comparisons with countries in the developed world.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

The last election lawsuit in Arizona has been tossed out:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/judge-tosses-last-election-lawsuit-in-arizona/ar-BB1bekdg

[drogulus]

     The dirty little secret pollsters need to own up to

Many voters who fit the "Likely Trump Supporter" profile were not willing to do an interview. It was especially hard to interview older men. Similarly, we were less likely to complete interviews with Trump households in Miami's media market. Whatever the motivation, this behavior almost certainly introduced bias into poll results, dampening apparent support for Trump.

     

[flyingdutchman]

Love John Fetterman the anger translator:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/meet-pennsylvania-anger-translator-donald-150025723.html

Pay up Dan Patrick.

[drogulus]

You lost me there.  Of course the election wasn't a referendum on Trump's attempt to steal the election.

     I'm pointing out that the results of the election can't be used to refute Trump's efforts to overturn it. One can predict Trump will fail, and I do. The election itself, though, is no guarantee of that failure. Trump is trying to steal an election he lost, because he lost. The argument that he's not trying to steal it because he lost it is nonsensical.

     Perhaps this novel formulation is motivated by the observation that Trump tried to steal an election in 2016 that he unexpectedly won. I'm trying to be charitable.

[Karl Henning]

The argument that he's not trying to steal it because he lost it is nonsensical.

Q.E.D.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

     I'm pointing out that the results of the election can't be used to refute Trump's efforts to overturn it. One can predict Trump will fail, and I do. The election itself, though, is no guarantee of that failure. Trump is trying to steal an election he lost, because he lost. The argument that he's not trying to steal it because he lost it is nonsensical.

     Perhaps this novel formulation is motivated by the observation that Trump tried to steal an election in 2016 that he unexpectedly won. I'm trying to be charitable.

I don't think that anyone here was/is trying to say otherwise? 

Best,

PD

[drogulus]

I don't think that anyone here was/is trying to say otherwise? 

Best,

PD

     I think the Trump strategy is misunderstood. At no point was the quality of the legal cases brought of any relevance. The numerous cases amount to a pretext for public consumption. The real battle is convincing state officials to substitute Biden electors with Trump electors. That's the battle Trump is fighting and losing. Public agitation was supposed to give these champions of healthy democracy cover. It hasn't worked. Trump lost too many states by too many votes.

[Florestan]

I don't think that anyone here was/is trying to say otherwise? 

I think there are two different issues here.

1. Did he try to steal the elections proper? I don't think so, but if people here have and can present solid evidence that he did I'll reconsider.

2. Does he try to change the outcome of the elections? Obviously, but he'll achieve nothing else than making a fool of himself yet again.

[Herman]

According to most reporting "strategy" and "Trump" don't go in one sentence very well.

He is just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something will stick.

Inviting those MI lawmakers after they had signed their names to the Wayne County numbers, for instance.

That doesn't make any strategic sense.

He started with a bunch of good lawyers, but when these people saw that they were expected to sell conspiracy madness to the judges, they balked and left.

So now Trump is stuck with Giuliani who can't argue his way out of a paper bag.

Trump has alienated everyone with a modicum of sense and decency. So he's left with a couple of desperados.

[T. D.]

According to most reporting "strategy" and "Trump" don't go in one sentence very well.

He is just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something will stick.

Inviting those MI lawmakers after they had signed their names to the Wayne County numbers, for instance.

That doesn't make any strategic sense.

He started with a bunch of good lawyers, but when these people saw that they were expected to sell conspiracy madness to the judges, they balked and left.

So now Trump is stuck with Giuliani who can't argue his way out of a paper bag.

Trump has alienated everyone with a modicum of sense and decency. So he's left with a couple of desperados.

I really think (as detailed in the BBC article I posted yesterday) the remaining strategy is the elector-switch/substitute gambit.
But it's typical Cheeto Mussolinism to fling as much s**t as possible at the ceiling and hope something sticks.

If you trace CM's bio and business history, he's had a strong tendency to hire lesser-known law firms (+accountants, etc.) with dubious reputations rather than big-name white-shoe ones. A little surprising for someone of his claimed wealth. But it's surely because CM wants to be his own counsel and boss the lawyers around. And, I also suspect, because he has a well-documented record of underpaying / not paying contractors.

[drogulus]

According to most reporting "strategy" and "Trump" don't go in one sentence very well.

He is just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something will stick.

     I think not. It looks that way because people think real lawyers abandoning ship and Giuliani taking over is strategically significant. It's not, and Giuliani is just as good as a genius lawyer for the intended purpose and perhaps better. He makes the right noises and keeps Trumpists riled up. Trump doesn't need genius lawyers to handle garbage cases. He doesn't want or need to lose these cases any differently than he's doing with Rudy. Are not the judges part of the conspiracy? But of course they are!

     It's not magic, though the legal misdirection has some of that flavor.

[drogulus]

Trump has alienated everyone with a modicum of sense and decency. So he's left with a couple of desperados.

     Al Capone was right. You can accomplish more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. The Michigan Proud Boys chickened out. Blame them, not Trump.

[T. D.]

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

Republican officials in Michigan have written to the state's electoral board to request a two-week adjournment.

They have called for an audit of the presidential vote in the largest county, home to Detroit, after it was contested by President Donald Trump.

However, the Michigan Department of State has quickly objected to the idea, saying delays and audits are not permitted by law.