USA Politics (redux)

Started by bhodges, November 10, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

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drogulus

Quote from: 71 dB on November 25, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
Nobody. You have to hold a gun to Mitch's head to make him care about regular people.  :P

     He would care about the gun. Mitch is fully capable of railing against executive authority when it suits him. Someone will fetch him a high principle that fits the case. Duty and responsibility don't come into it. Bad executives took them away. It's sad.
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Karl Henning

On Saturday, a federal district court judge issued a blistering dismissal of Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. v. Kathy Boockvar. The opinion is a lesson in elementary lawyering—a once-in-a-career missive that I assigned to my first-year law students on Monday, because it reads like a toddler's "What's Wrong With This Picture" exercise for lawyers. No wonder that Chris Christie, who was a U.S. attorney before he was New Jersey's governor, called Trump's legal team a "national embarrassment" in the wake of its dozens of legal failures. The more sobering problem is that, like much of government touched by Donald Trump, the legal system has now been sullied by his spurious attacks—relying on tortured arguments and illusory facts—upon legitimately cast and counted votes. Too bad that—so far—no lawyers have been sanctioned for abusing the courts this way. They should be.

Trump's Embarrassingly Bad Legal Case in Pennsylvania
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

#602
Quote from: Kim Wehle from TheBulwarkThe chance that the Supreme Court will step in and ignore the facts, ignore the law, and ignore the governing procedural rules to snatch the election from Joe Biden and the American people and hand it to Donald Trump is zero.

Irrelevant, Karl, irrelevant. What is the chance as calculated by TYT? --- that is the question (cf. post #593).  ;)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Charlie Sykes: "Exit take: We were warned of socialism, but apparently will get Janet Yellen instead. It's almost enough to make you suspect they were scamming us."
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus


     The Inside Story of Michigan's Fake Voter Fraud Scandal

More than any policy enacted or court vacancy filled, Trump's legacy will be his unprecedented assault on the legitimacy of the ballot box. And it will not be considered in isolation. Future iterations of the GOP will make casual insinuations of voter fraud central to the party's brand. The next generation of Republicans will have learned how to sow doubts about election integrity in one breath and in the next breath bemoan the nation's lack of faith in our elections, creating a self-perpetuating justification to cast suspicion on a process that by raw numbers does not appear conducive to keeping them in power.

     
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drogulus

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 25, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
Charlie Sykes: "Exit take: We were warned of socialism, but apparently will get Janet Yellen instead. It's almost enough to make you suspect they were scamming us."

     Yellen was too short for Trump, now she's just right.
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SimonNZ

Quote from: Todd on November 25, 2020, 04:47:01 AM

Yes, of course it is. 

What we've just experienced, and continue to experience though to a lesser degree, is sensationalist press coverage misrepresenting the power of the presidency and the weakness of other institutions, and doing so on a repeated, daily (hourly) basis, to the point that the "news" resembles nothing less than political propaganda.  A good chunk of people are so blinded by partisanship and ideology, that they believe the stories and begin spinning more fanciful yarns of their own.  Eventually, we witnessed people proclaiming that the US is a banana republic and that Trump would steal the election and serve multiple terms, not as a joke, but with complete and nervous earnestness, over and over. 

All the while, from day one of Trump's presidency, existing institutions continued to function.  Congress passed precious little meaningful legislation - which they do with every administration.  Courts ruled against Trump's actions from the get-go - which they do with every administration.  State and local leaders refused to follow presidential mandates - which they do with every administration.  The main difference was the ubiquity and sensationalism of the press coverage.

It apparently remains difficult for many people to remember the power of the presidency, as concerns about the fate of the republic inevitably center on the president.  The president has the power to literally destroy another country on command.  The president cannot order a stop sign installed at the end of my street.  And then people on the left conveniently forget that historically, in the US, the left has been even more set on expanding the power of the presidency, starting no later than Wilson.  The executive branch should be weakened substantially.  That is the best way to prevent an overly powerful executive.  The opposite will be advocated starting on January 20th, 2021.

Yes, I suppose it could happen here.  Whatever it is.  And depending on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

And the failure and incompetence of the Beer Hall Putsch proves the robustness of the Weimar Republic and that this would-be dictator is just a clownish amusement and any newspaper that says otherwise is just peddling hysterical propaganda.

drogulus

Quote from: SimonNZ on November 25, 2020, 02:50:50 PM
And the failure and incompetence of the Beer Hall Putsch proves the robustness of the Weimar Republic and that this would-be dictator is just a clownish amusement and any newspaper that says otherwise is just peddling hysterical propaganda.

     Trump was the chief propagandist. The media covered his awfulness, including everything he tried to do, failed to do, and succeeded in doing. It was a sensation, but not a made up one.

     On occasion the media sensationalized the wrong thing. I don't care whether this is old under the sun or new. They got the Russia scandal far more right than wrong, as the Mueller report and the Senate report confirmed in detail. The Ukraine scandal brought about Trump's impeachment and the media got that right, too. They covered the sadistic child separation policy. The sensation wasn't how it was covered, but that it happened. It's not that consoling to me that DHS and ICE continued to function.

     
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SimonNZ

Quote from: drogulus on November 25, 2020, 03:39:03 PM
     Trump was the chief propagandist. The media covered his awfulness, including everything he tried to do, failed to do, and succeeded in doing. It was a sensation, but not a made up one.

     On occasion the media sensationalized the wrong thing. I don't care whether this is old under the sun or new. They got the Russia scandal far more right than wrong, as the Mueller report and the Senate report confirmed in detail. The Ukraine scandal brought about Trump's impeachment and the media got that right, too. They covered the sadistic child separation policy. The sensation wasn't how it was covered, but that it happened. It's not that consoling to me that DHS and ICE continued to function.

   

I agree, of course.

drogulus


     Will Trump pardon himself for the crimes the media sensationalized him into committing? What about pardoning anyone who might testify sensationally?
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SimonNZ

NPR's "Embedded" podcast is doing a series of episodes on Mitch McConnell. The first was on the working relationship he may have with Biden, the sond on his rise, the third and most recent is the first part of a look at his relaxed attitude to campaign finance:

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510311/embedded

SimonNZ

Bloomberg:

Mnuchin Plans to Put $455 Billion Beyond Yellen's Easy Reach

"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin will put $455 billion in unspent Cares Act funding into an account that his presumed successor, former Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen, will soon need authorization from Congress to use.

The money will be placed in the agency's General Fund, a Treasury Department spokesperson said Tuesday. Most of it had gone to support Federal Reserve emergency-lending facilities, and Mnuchin's clawback would make it impossible for Yellen as Treasury secretary to restore for that purpose without lawmakers' blessing.

Democrats swiftly criticized the move, with Bharat Ramamurti, a member of the congressionally appointed watchdog panel overseeing Fed and Treasury Covid-19 relief funds, saying "the good news is that it's illegal and can be reversed next year."[...]

MusicTurner

This seems to be a good survey of #45's expected regulation initiatives before January 20th, besides pardoning (Flynn already pardoned):

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-races-to-weaken-environmental-and-worker-protections-and-implement-other-last-minute-policies-before-jan-20



Herman

#613
Has there ever been a lame duck session like this?

The pardons are obviously standard, but all these steps to make it harder for the next administration are rather new to me.

And this includes not just the billions Mnuchin is locking up so Biden / Yellen won't have any budget, but also the death row executions.

Florestan

Searching for the USA equivalent(s) of the Beer Hall Putsch I found, among other things, something called The Election Riot of 1874, or Coup of 1874, which took place on election day, November 3, 1874, in an Alabama location. Now, this is a very interesting story. Here it goes (all quotes taken from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_riot_of_1874 and all highlights are mine).

The Election Riot of 1874, or Coup of 1874, took place on election day, November 3, 1874, near Eufaula, Alabama in Barbour County. Freedmen comprised a majority of the population and had been electing Republican candidates to office. Members of an Alabama chapter of the White League, a paramilitary group supporting the Democratic Party's drive to regain conservative political power in the county and state, attacked black Republicans at the polls.

The members of the White League killed at least seven black voters and wounded 70, while driving away more than 1,000 unarmed black people at the polls. In attacking the polling place in Spring Hill, the League influenced the outcome of the elections. They turned all Republicans out of office and Democratic candidates took a majority of offices up for election.

Background

The White League had formed in 1874 as an insurgent, white Democratic paramilitary group in Grant Parish and nearby parishes[1] on the Red River of the South in Louisiana. The League was founded by members of the white militia who had committed the Colfax Massacre in Louisiana in 1873, killing numerous black people in order to turn out Republicans from parish offices as part of the disputed 1872 gubernatorial election. Historians such as George Rabe consider groups such as the White League and Red Shirts as a "military arm" of the Democratic Party. Their members worked openly to disrupt Republican meetings, and attacked and intimidated voters to suppress black voting. They courted press attention rather than operating secretly, as had the Ku Klux Klan.

Chapters spread to Alabama and other states in the Deep South. A similar paramilitary group was the Red Shirts, which originated in Mississippi and became active in the Carolinas. Both paramilitary groups contributed to the Democrats' regaining control in the state legislatures in the late 1870s. The Red Shirts were still active in the 1890s and were implicated in the Wilmington Insurrection of 1898 in North Carolina.[2]
Events

On election day, November 3, 1874, an Alabama chapter of the White League repeated actions taken earlier that year in Vicksburg, Mississippi. They invaded Eufaula, killing at least seven black Republicans, injuring at least 70 more, and driving off more than 1,000 unarmed Republicans from the polls.[3] The group moved on to Spring Hill, where members stormed the polling place, destroying the ballot box, and killing the 16-year-old son of a white Republican judge in their shooting.[4]

The White League refused to count any Republican votes cast. But, Republican voters reflected the black majority in the county, as well as white supporters. They outnumbered Democratic voters by a margin greater than two to one. The League declared the Democratic candidates victorious, forced Republican politicians out of office, and seized every county office in Barbour County in a kind of coup d'état.[5] Such actions were repeated in other parts of the South in the 1870s, as Democrats sought to regain political dominance in states with black majorities and numerous Republican officials. In Barbour County, the Democrats auctioned off as "slaves" (for a maximum cost of $2 per month), or otherwise silenced all Republican witnesses to the events. They were intimidated from testifying to the coup if the case went to federal court.[5]

Legacy

Due to the actual and threatened violence by the White League, black voters began to stay away from the polls in Barbour County. They no longer voted in sufficient number to retain a majority of Republican officeholders. White conservative Democrats continued to intimidate black voters through the late 19th century, especially after a Populist-Republican alliance elected some Fusion candidates in the Deep South, as well as local Republican officials in many states.

In 1875, Mississippi Democrats also used widespread intimidation to control local elections, which became known as the Mississippi Plan. Such violence was adopted by chapters in other cities and counties. Democrats regained control of Alabama and other state legislatures.



Nihil novum sub sole.

Back to the Beer Hall Putsch, it would be interesting to compare the sentences received by Hitler, Ludendorff and their gang with the sentences that the gang who conspired to kidnap Michigan's governor will receive.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

SimonNZ

#615
That was some underlining worthy of Reddit. Why not just join them and say "It was a Republican who freed the slaves!"?

Do you really, honestly, need to have it explained to you the changing face and philosophies of the Rs and Ds, the near reversal of roles,  from the late 19th century to the late 20th?


Vox:

How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps

Fëanor

Quote from: drogulus on November 25, 2020, 02:43:18 PM
     The Inside Story of Michigan's Fake Voter Fraud Scandal

More than any policy enacted or court vacancy filled, Trump's legacy will be his unprecedented assault on the legitimacy of the ballot box. And it will not be considered in isolation. Future iterations of the GOP will make casual insinuations of voter fraud central to the party's brand. The next generation of Republicans will have learned how to sow doubts about election integrity in one breath and in the next breath bemoan the nation's lack of faith in our elections, creating a self-perpetuating justification to cast suspicion on a process that by raw numbers does not appear conducive to keeping them in power.

This is Trump's legacy:  undermining faith in the electoral process.  Even assuming Trump doesn't run himself in '23-'24 it is very likely the next Republican candidate will exploit the myth of election fraud.

Fëanor

Quote from: milk on November 25, 2020, 05:31:59 AM
It's a bit of a straw man. I doubt most critics in this vein were saying this. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. There were regulations put into place after Nixon and perhaps they need updating. Trump mixed his business with government to some degree, put his businesses into a practically meaningless blind trust, had government officials revolving through his admin in a whimsical way, he had inexperienced and unqualified family around him as advisors, etc. There's stuff like that that made people say, "oh, he's acting from the playbook of a tin-pot dictator." I agree that it's a lot more to do with his personality and that he was constrained by a system that mostly "works." Trum wanted to choose his electorate rather than the way it worked out according to the system: The electorate didn't choose him. However, by vomiting a constant stream of lies and bringing along a coterie of liars, he convinced millions of dummies that he only lost because of fraud. The republicans still want to pick their electorate by pushing the fraud narrative and they tried to influence the system to do it. Trump ginned up the conspiracy by getting his voters to vote in-person and repubs had those votes counted first. Trump was lying about how mail-ins were fraud votes months back in the hope of tarnishing the legitimacy of the process and altering the wishes of the electorate. It didn't work this time. Maybe it's all about fundraising and keeping an hysterical base of devotees to con, fund his legal battles or draw on to support a future run. No, he's not a fascist and he didn't turn the U.S. into the movie Bananas. He did act like that and it's a mystery whether he believes what comes out of his own mouth as it's clear his white house staff cannot possibly believe his nonsense.     

The fact is the Trump was an incompetent POTUS and not a very shrewd politician.  If a smarter and maybe even more cynical populist to were to gain the Presidency, one can only fear the consequences to American democracy.

Perhaps the biggest damage, IMO, is Trump's sowing doubt in the electoral process.  This is a thing that will be exploited by future candidates of the Republican Party and likely the Democratic Party as well.  Once people loose faith in election results, everything is on the table.

I'm not saying this is something Trump thought throw.  I tend to think he subconsciously anticipated his loss and, given his pathological narcissism, invented a means to deflect the reality of rejection and defeat.

Florestan

Quote from: SimonNZ on November 26, 2020, 12:33:11 AM
Do you really, honestly, need to have it explained to you the changing face and philosophies of the Rs and Ds, the near reversal of roles,  from the late 19th century to the late 20th?

Both parties have changed their philosophies (insofar as such a lofty notion can be applied to sloganeering) but not their essentially cynical, hypocritical, unprincipled, power-hungry nature.

Quote
How Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of Trump, in 13 maps

A History of the Democratic Party – From Slavery to Obama: Loyal Defenders of Capitalism

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Herman

Voter fraud has long been a go to talking point among Republicans and libertarians.

There has always been talk about inner city (= black) people voting multiple times, and this has always been regarded as a fact that Democrats would not see, because the D party profited from these non-existent shenanigans.

The ironic fact of this election is that the only voter fraud that has been noted has been isolated cases of Republicans that voted twice, either by accident or accidentally on purpose, or voted for their dead mom, because she would have wanted it that way.

This belonging to realm of facts does not make the slightest impression (also, quantitatively it doesn't mean a thing), whereas the myth of black inner city folk bringing thousands of non-existent votes to the D party bosses is indestructible. Trump tapped into this myth successfully and so will the next R candidate.