USA Politics (redux)

Started by bhodges, November 10, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

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Todd

Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2020, 12:03:51 AM
Searching for the USA equivalent(s) of the Beer Hall Putsch


You will find no analog.  Beer Hall Putsches are European.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Zeus

Quote from: SimonNZ on November 25, 2020, 02:50:50 PM
And the failure and incompetence of the Beer Hall Putsch proves the robustness of the Weimar Republic and that this would-be dictator is just a clownish amusement and any newspaper that says otherwise is just peddling hysterical propaganda.

Hear! Hear!

Everything is for the best in the best of all possible countries.

Oh, and government is evil.
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JBS

Quote from: Herman on November 25, 2020, 11:17:36 PM
Has there ever been a lame duck session like this?

The pardons are obviously standard, but all these steps to make it harder for the next administration are rather new to me.

And this includes not just the billions Mnuchin is locking up so Biden / Yellen won't have any budget, but also the death row executions.

The basic strategy is to leave a mess, complain about whatever Biden does to fix, complain about him trying to fix it and by that method win back the House and full control of the Senate in 2022, and let the Trump-anointed candidate win the WH in 2024.
Add to that of course claims that Biden's election was rigged as extra motives for Real Americans to vote Republican.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Herman

Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2020, 07:17:44 AM
The basic strategy is to leave a mess, complain about whatever Biden does to fix, complain about him trying to fix it and by that method win back the House and full control of the Senate in 2022, and let the Trump-anointed candidate win the WH in 2024.
Add to that of course claims that Biden's election was rigged as extra motives for Real Americans to vote Republican.

Yes, and keep saying that nothing that Trump c.s. did in 2016 - 2020 was really bad, since the USA clearly did not fall off a cliff. (Never mind hundreds of thousands of dead, just don't mention them. "We like the ones who did not die.")

Todd

NY Gov. Cuomo Says Supreme Court Decision Overturning COVID Restrictions for Religious Services Has 'No Practical Effect'

Cuomo claims victory even in defeat.  The important thing here, of course, is that Roberts sided with the court's three liberals.  I suspect that will become more common.  Maybe Roberts can still become a Warren size disappointment.


Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2020, 07:17:44 AM
The basic strategy is to leave a mess, complain about whatever Biden does to fix, complain about him trying to fix it and by that method win back the House and full control of the Senate in 2022, and let the Trump-anointed candidate win the WH in 2024.
Add to that of course claims that Biden's election was rigged as extra motives for Real Americans to vote Republican.

Gotta keep your eyes on the prize.  A fully Republican controlled Congress for 2023-2025 would be outstanding.  The administration would be hemmed in.  Dems had best pray for victory in both Georgia elections and then ram through as much legislation as they can.  That may be wishful thinking for Dems.  Here's a heartwarming story: Majority say they want GOP in control of Senate: poll

Quote from: Julia ManschesterFifty-six percent of voters said they want a divided government with Republicans in control of the upper chamber, according to data released exclusively to The Hill.

I rather assume that since voters are far dumber than internet board posters, this means nothing, and no doubt a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll cannot be taken seriously.  The republic is doomed, and so forth.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

drogulus

Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2020, 07:58:36 AM


I rather assume that since voters are far dumber than internet board posters, this means nothing, and no doubt a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll cannot be taken seriously.  The republic is doomed, and so forth.

     What do dumb voters want? They want good stuff from the politicians they know, not the other side. There are smart voters, too, that have figured out who wants to do the thing and who wants to stop the thing being done.

     A common belief is that divided government leads to compromise which raises the odds that the good thing will get done. GMG Big Brains know better.
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drogulus

#626
Quote from: Fëanor on November 26, 2020, 03:48:32 AM
This is Trump's legacy:  undermining faith in the electoral process.  Even assuming Trump doesn't run himself in '23-'24 it is very likely the next Republican candidate will exploit the myth of election fraud.

     It will be interesting to see if any Repub contender for 2024 breaks ranks and acknowledges that elections are fairly run and free of fraud. As things stand that would be political suicide.

     Then there's the matter of infiltration by QAnon. Signs in the sky say this version of crowd madness is waning, perhaps heading for Satanic day care extinction. The GOP will be vulnerable to the next craze, though, given the importance of denialism on many fronts built into the party.
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drogulus

#627
     The Biden Presidency Already Has Its First Conspiracy Theory: The Great Reset

"Now we have this push for what's being called the Great Reset," Newsmax host Michelle Malkin said on a Nov. 21 show. "And every aspect of the way that we live our lives, how we worship, whether we're allowed to, how we're raising our kids, how they're allowed to access education, is being transformed based on nothing that is actually supported by real science."

     In no way are we having this push other than the dingdongs who are pushing it. I don't get the reference to science and actual support by it. The scientists are supposed to be part of the plot.

     Also I note a distinct lack of sub-basement torture rooms and spaceships. To be fair, the inclusion of Sesame Street puppets is plusgood.
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71 dB

Quote from: drogulus on November 26, 2020, 09:37:47 AM
     The Biden Presidency Already Has Its First Conspiracy Theory: The Great Reset

"Now we have this push for what's being called the Great Reset," Newsmax host Michelle Malkin said on a Nov. 21 show. "And every aspect of the way that we live our lives, how we worship, whether we're allowed to, how we're raising our kids, how they're allowed to access education, is being transformed based on nothing that is actually supported by real science."

     In no way are we having this push other than the dingdongs who are pushing it. I don't get the reference to science and actual support by it. The scientists are supposed to be part of the plot.

     Also I note a distinct lack of sub-basement torture rooms and spaceships. To be fair, the inclusion of Sesame Street puppets is plusgood.

I have been in online contact with a Canadian woman for over a decade. Now in the era of Trump she has started talking about weird things she never before did. She supports Trump and thinks Justin Trudeau is part of this "reset thing". She is anti-vaxxer. I try to talk sense to her, but... ...so the World is ruined. Half of people are insane and I don't what the fuck to do
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Todd

#629
Quote from: 71 dB on November 26, 2020, 09:46:06 AMShe supports Trump and thinks Justin Trudeau is part of this "reset thing".


Perhaps someone here can explain how any non-American can be a Trump supporter.  Or opponent, for that matter.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

71 dB

Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2020, 09:47:24 AM

Perhaps someone here can explain how any non-American and be a Trump supporter.  Or opponent, for that matter.

There are Trumpists outside the US. In Finland about 20 % support Trump. Typically those who support nationalistic anti-immigrant right wing populist parties support also Trump. In Finland this party is True Finns (Perussuomalaiset in Finnish), the only party with more support for Trump than Biden. Laura Huhtasaari of that party even nominated Trump for 2021 Nobel Peace Prize, something that makes me extremely embarassed of being a Finn!  :-X
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

drogulus

Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2020, 09:47:24 AM

Perhaps someone here can explain how any non-American and be a Trump supporter.  Or opponent, for that matter.

     It's part of Reset theory. Soros will get it done.

Quote from: 71 dB on November 26, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
There are Trumpists outside the US.

     There are Communists everywhere.

     
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Fëanor

Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2020, 09:47:24 AM

Perhaps someone here can explain how any non-American and be a Trump supporter.  Or opponent, for that matter.

You ask?  Really?  As the wealthiest, most powerful, and as yet, still the most influential nation in the world you wonder why a non-American would be concerned about an incompetent loose-cannon in the White House.  Presumably you're joking rather making light of the matter.

Herman

The weirder thing is why non-Americans would support (or want to support) Trump. However in most nation their are men and women who are attracted to this style of behaviour. (I was going to say 'politics'.

In many western countries Trump would get ten or fifteen percent of the vote, is my guess, without even showing up.

Todd

Quote from: Fëanor on November 26, 2020, 10:35:34 AM
You ask?  Really?  As the wealthiest, most powerful, and as yet, still the most influential nation in the world you wonder why a non-American would be concerned about an incompetent loose-cannon in the White House.  Presumably you're joking rather making light of the matter.

Yes, I ask.  Really.  What is a non-American Trump "supporter"?  What does that mean?  Does it mean they are fans, or something similar?  Non-Americans cannot support American politicians in any real-world way (money, campaigning, voting, etc).  Moral support is worthless.  Just as worthless as moral opposition.

At some point, one would think non-Americans would conclude that their dependence on the US in security and financial matters is a risk and would take action to change course.  But instead, if the President-elect is correct, and "America is Back"  - a phrase as intrinsically worthless as "America First" or "Make America Great Again" - and all manner of foreign leaders are more than happy to return to a variant of the status quo ante, then non-Americans haven't learned a thing. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

drogulus


     Risk balancing is done everywhere. Trump altered the balance and Biden will, too. Everyone learns, unlearns and relearns. I don't think Biden will or even can return to the status quo ante. I would want him to support the alliances in ways most consistent with the nature of opposing forces in Asia and Europe as they presently exist. We won't get Obama foreign policy laxness. Iran policy will change. Russia policy will be more realistic. China policy will focus more on results and less on frenemy theater Trump displayed. Biden will be low on the warmonger scale.

     
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Florestan

Quote from: drogulus on November 26, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
     I would want him to support the alliances in ways most consistent with the nature of opposing forces in Asia and Europe as they presently exist.

What forces oppose the USA, or NATO, in Europe?

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2020, 11:25:02 AM
What forces oppose the USA, or NATO, in Europe?

Russia!  You know, the baddest of the bad.  The evil empire, or its remnants, at any rate, currently headed by a cunning, ruthless leader of such evil genius that he is slowly rebuilding the Soviet or Tsarist Empire (I can't remember which) with no opposition or even meaningful discussion. 

Asia is filled with non-Westerners, and therefore is much more prone to non-Western modes of thought, which are bad, of course, so therefore, 'Murica!
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

drogulus


     
Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2020, 11:25:02 AM
What forces oppose the USA, or NATO, in Europe?



     Russian policy has been consistent under Putin. I don't see that changing. It would be better to have a policy of cooperation among the NATO countries. I think we're done with undermining such cooperation for now. In Asia our allies are worried about an increasingly aggressive China. While Americans might have unique ideas about what constitutes opposition, mostly it's not specific to them. I think Asians and Europeans have their own quite similar ideas. We aren't implanting our ideas in their heads. We are not that exceptional.
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Florestan

Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Russia!  You know, the baddest of the bad.  The evil empire, or its remnants, at any rate, currently headed by a cunning, ruthless leader of such evil genius that he is slowly rebuilding the Soviet or Tsarist Empire (I can't remember which) with no opposition or even meaningful discussion. 

;D  ;D ;D

And lo and behold:

Quote from: drogulus on November 26, 2020, 12:09:45 PM
      Russian policy has been consistent under Putin.

When I hear Europe I tend to think EU.  Are there forces within EU that oppose USA and NATO?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini