USA Politics (redux)

[Daverz]

The Democrats contested the 2016 election just as hotly.

Complete fantasy.

Hillary Clinton called Trump to concede the day after the election.  She called on her supporters to give Trump "an open mind and a chance to lead."

There were some scattered objections from sitting members of the House, but they are quickly shut down by ... Joe Biden. 

https://www.rollcall.com/2017/01/06/trump-election-is-made-official-over-scattered-objections/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/11/09/hillary-clinton-didnt-give-her-concession-speech-on-election-night-now-we-see-one-reason-why/

[Karl Henning]

Some of you here might appreciate this segment from Saturday Night Live--the part about Trump and him not wanting to testify.  It's starts about 2:40 minutes in. :

https://ijr.com/snls-urges-trump-testify-during-senates-impeachment-trial/

PD

Fun!

[SimonNZ]

Does Trump being kicked out of the Screen Actors Guild mean he can't make another series of The Apprentice?

[Mirror Image]

Does Trump being kicked out of the Screen Actors Guild mean he can't make another series of The Apprentice?

At this juncture, I think it's safe to say that many organizations have severed their ties with Trump. His name brings nothing but misfortune, but the fact he pulled what he did before exiting office, has caused a ripple effect which we haven't even seen the magnitude as of yet. All I can say is get your popcorn ready.

[71 dB]

Does Trump being kicked out of the Screen Actors Guild mean he can't make another series of The Apprentice?

What? Trump was kicked out? I thought he resigned himself. This is how ignorant I am now that I follow US politics quite passively again... 

[Herman]

OMG, having exhausted all the other cliché's (Biden is senile etc) we're going to get the 'baby killing" thing now?

Biden is a catholic; goes to church. Your hero, Trump, was a serial philanderer and 'man about town' who boasted his Vietnam was avoiding SOTAs. Just try to imagine how many checks he wrote for abortions.

[Daverz]

Your trust is very touching but please look at his track record. He is just one of the White House aristocracy who is got back in there. And the first thing he does in public service to his country is fund the killing of babies out of public money. Please ponder this

Respectful of human life

Handelian

This line is many years past its sell-by date.  Conservatives don't and never did care about infant mortality, heavy metal exposure, childhood nutrition, or healthcare.  They love knocking down consumer and environmental regulations aimed at protecting life. They love the death penalty, unrestricted access to guns, and warmongering.  They don't care about workplace safety, the safety of the food and water supply, clean air, or preventing or even mitigating the global catastrophe of climate change (if they even acknowledge it).  They've even politicized the wearing of masks during a global pandemic that has killed millions worldwide, refusing to make even this small sacrifice for the safety of their neighbors.  They are a nihilistic death cult at this point.   

Let's put it this way: conservatives want to force every pregnancy to come to term, but when asked to wear a mask bleat about fascist liberals taking away their freedoms.

[71 dB]

Your trust is very touching but please look at his track record. He is just one of the White House aristocracy who is got back in there. And the first thing he does in public service to his country is fund the killing of babies out of public money. Please ponder this

Respectful of human life

Handelian

Republicans care about life until the child is actually born. Once a child has born they stop giving rat's ass what happens to the child. They don't care if the parent's have enough food stamps to feed the child or money to keep the house warm during winter. In fact a couple of decades later they don't mind inflicting death penalty upon that same person whose life they wanted to protect before the birth. 

People are against abortion because of the Bible, but the Bible is not against abortion. Sure, the Bible is a self-contradictory mess, but it talks about "bitter water" unfaithful women should drink to have miscarriage. Religious people just don't know their holy books that well and instead let religious institutions and people in power use holy books to mislead and oppress themselves. Oftentimes politicians opposing abortion do them themselves. They are rich and in power. They have the means to do abortions. They can go to a state that has relaxed abortion rules. They oppose abortion to get the votes and support of mislead people. The Republicans have NOTHING substantial to offer to the regular people (because they are 100 % corrupt to serve the top 1 %) so they offer things like conservative social constracts, bigotry and racism. Right wing corporate outlets such as Fox News have done their part in brainwashing people into buying these disgusting ideologies.

Sure, you don't need a holy book to oppose something. You can be against abortion if you want, but that means you don't get to dictate other people what to do. You can only refrain yourself of having abortions (if you are a woman, that is). The US was founded a SECULAR country with religious liberties. The US is not supposed to establish any religion, only allow people to practise their religion or practise no religion at all. In a secular country the law-makers are suppose to base their decisions at least partially on facts and science when available. What does science tell us about when a fetus becomes a human being?

US solders are sent to the Middle East to die for cheap oil. That's not "pro-life". That's "pro-corporate profits." Anti-abortion doctrine is about controlling people, especially women and to have the support and votes of people brainwashed into the doctrine. Sorry about this rant, but I'm so tired of all the greed-based anti-intellectualism in the World that does so much harm and so little good. I am not even a fan of Biden as everybody knows. He can't wait to work with these crazy Republicans in a bipartisan way. That is a huge problem.

[Fëanor]

...
Anti-abortion doctrine is about controlling people, especially women and to have the support and votes of people brainwashed into the doctrine. Sorry about this rant, but I'm so tired of all the greed-based anti-intellectualism in the World that does so much harm and so little good. ...

That hits the nail on the head.  Anti-abortion is about control of women, mainly men's control of women.  It isn't mainly about religion although many doctrines of world religion are obviously related to control of women, (often under the guise of "protecting" then).

High birth rates are a major problem though out world.  Even it we can manage to feed people, we don't have the resources to deliver healthy and fulfilling lifestyles to ballooning population numbers, plus there is the environmental impact.  A major part of controlling family size is shown to relate to female education and women's greater control over own reproduction.

But ... if you're a woman and don't believe in abortion, don't have one.

[T. D.]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/in-americas-uncivil-war-republicans-are-the-aggressors/

[drogulus]

You and I have both had the privilege of being born and you people want to deny others the privilege

     I exercised no privilege or right in getting born. There was no "I" to exercise anything. It was my mom who decided which baby would would be"me", or which "me" would be a baby. None of "us" has anything to complain about.

[71 dB]

You and I have both had the privilege of being born and you people want to deny others the privilege

We pro-choice people don't want abortions!

Nobody likes abortions, but sometimes its the answer in a difficult situation. Implicating people want to do abortions is ignoring the trauma abortion cause to women and how difficult such a choice is to make. The "rights" of the unborn child are one thing, but there are other factors to consider such as the rights of women to control their own body. The World is a complex place and sometimes sadly abortion is the answer. That's why abortion exists in the first place. Denying someones privileges is a silly concept here: How far back in time does this logic apply? Is using condom denying someones priviledge of being born? Is not going out on a date potentially denying someones priviledge of being born? At what point in time does this priviledge emerge? Even without abortion miscarriage is a thing. Our birth is not a 100 % sure thing before it actually happens.

It's also good to keep in mind that pro-life laws don't prevent abortions happening, only makes it harder and more dangerous for women to have them. Better way to prevent abortions is better sex education in school, but ironically often the same conservatives who are loudly pro-life also oppose sex education...

[Mirror Image]

Democrats don't care much for in the mortality as they believe in killing babies. It's fundamental to their policy. You can start churning out these accusations and bleeding away but that is a fact. Sorry but you're talking nonsense to try and divert the facts. You and I have both had the privilege of being born and you people want to deny others the privilege

So a woman is raped by a criminal and becomes pregnant, she should keep the child because it's the 'right' thing to do according to you?

[Herman]

to people like you the snuffing out of life is all important

Nobody, literally nobody says, 'I feel like having an abortion today'. Or 'This is going to be fun, I'm going to talk this woman into having an abortion'. The only ones who are cynically using other people's bad luck and unhappiness as a political wedge issue are the pro-lifers, who, of course, generously support guns, who deny school shootings are 'real' and releasing toxic material into the environment if it helps business (i.e. stock holders).

However, all these issues have been discussed ad nauseam, too. It's like talking to a Republican / Conservative Party Talking Point Robot.

[Rinaldo]

Names change, trolling stays the same. Killing babies, rad!

https://www.youtube.com/v/fbU1zYzD-Tw

[Fëanor]

What nonsense. I'm not using any political wedge. Neither am I a gun toting right winger. I just don't believe in killing babies anymore than I believe in school shootings. Amazing the way you guys say you don't believe in guns yet you believe in killing babies. Where is your logic? If you don't believe in guns then why do you believe in killing babies?

I don't believe in killing babies either.  Then again a fetus not a baby, much less is an embryo a baby.  That's because while human fetuses and embryos are obviously human, they are not yet human beings.  IMO, a women's right to terminate a pregnancy would not be objected to on the grounds that she is killing a baby, that is, a human being, because she isn't.

(If you want to split hairs you may argue the late-term fetuses are close enough to being babies to warrant being treated as humans, but that's a tangent I'm not going to debate here.)

I'm  reminded that I was told that Inuit cultures, (prior to White influence), did not consider a baby and human being until it was able to sit up by itself.

[Herman]

This is not a good discussion. The question when a fetus becomes a human being is indeterminate.

The thing to keep in mind is no one feels good about having an abortion. The issue is whether the baby that will eventually be born has a chance of a good life. So, does it have debilitating health issues? We can now screen fetuses at a really early moment. Some right-to-life people want mothers to go ahead and have the baby no matter what.

Also, you cannot demand that a woman will have a baby (+ 16 years) after a violent rape. If one or two women do, fine, but that doesn't mean other women should do so, too. The real issue is, of course, that men want to decide for women.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

The impeachment trial starts at noon today.

[Fëanor]

This is not a good discussion. The question when a fetus becomes a human being is indeterminate.

The thing to keep in mind is no one feels good about having an abortion. The issue is whether the baby that will eventually be born has a chance of a good life. So, does it have debilitating health issues? We can now screen fetuses at a really early moment. Some right-to-life people want mothers to go ahead and have the baby no matter what.

Also, you cannot demand that a woman will have a baby (+ 16 years) after a violent rape. If one or two women do, fine, but that doesn't mean other women should do so, too. The real issue is, of course, that men want to decide for women.

What this implies to me is that we -- or at least the common weal -- ought not to be judgemental about an woman's decision for abortion.

[Karl Henning]

This is not a good discussion. The question when a fetus becomes a human being is indeterminate.

The thing to keep in mind is no one feels good about having an abortion. The issue is whether the baby that will eventually be born has a chance of a good life. So, does it have debilitating health issues? We can now screen fetuses at a really early moment. Some right-to-life people want mothers to go ahead and have the baby no matter what.

Also, you cannot demand that a woman will have a baby (+ 16 years) after a violent rape. If one or two women do, fine, but that doesn't mean other women should do so, too. The real issue is, of course, that men want to decide for women.

Entirely on point.