USA Politics (redux)

[SimonNZ]

"This case is much worse than someone who falsely shouts fire in a crowded theater. It's more like a case where the town fire chief, who's paid to put out fires, sends a mob not to yell fire in a crowded theater but to actually set the theater on fire."

[Karl Henning]

Nearly half the Republicans who will judge Trump bolstered the falsehood that drove the Capitol riot

[Karl Henning]

"This case is much worse than someone who falsely shouts fire in a crowded theater. It's more like a case where the town fire chief, who's paid to put out fires, sends a mob not to yell fire in a crowded theater but to actually set the theater on fire."

I saw that, too.

[Karl Henning]

Had to watch this, to know just what Trump and his mob are capable of, and have done

[BasilValentine]

Things I learned today: (I watched nearly the whole show.)

Not a single one of Trump's supporters knows how to spell the word cavalry. They seem to get it confused with a hill in Palestine.

Trump is essentially a cop killer.

[Herman]

Trump is essentially a cop killer.

As I have said many times, Trump relishes in other people dying violently or miserably.

It;s the narcissist's zerosum joie de vivre. He only enjoys life when other people are miserable.

His final act in that domain were the record nr of lame duck executions.

(I'm not saying he killed lame ducks.)

[71 dB]

(I'm not saying he killed lame ducks.)

Killing lame ducks could be considered an act of mercy, a concept unknown to Trump... 

[milk]

I have to admit that after watching the trial today I felt something more depressing than usual about this topic. It was the feeling that I no longer want to talk to people that disagree over this. That's a very sad thing and it's not a feeling of hope. We need competition in politics and to be able to imagine living together at the end of the day. People are going to have different points of view at the same job or school, even in the same family or house. I think we've really lost something in this and I think trump accomplished something, not by offering any set of ideas or ideals but just by embodying resentment. He very masterfully reduced the level of what is possible to talk about politically and what it's possible to agree on or accomplish in public life. He's split people up but nothing is gained by anyone really - unless you think confusion and disaffection serves a greater good.   

[Herman]

Well, the rich would consider tax cuts for the rich a gain.

However, the rift in society, even in families, has been there much longer.

[BasilValentine]

No one seems to be mentioning the unarmed woman who was shot dead. One assumes she didn't matter?

The capitol police would have been justified in shooting every one of the insurrectionists posing a threat to members of congress. Ashli Babbit mattered because shooting her slowed the assault on the House Chamber and allowed legislators time to escape. As can be seen at 9:10 in in the impeachment managers' video, Babbit, who had military training, was shot because she was the first person through the breach created by breaking windows of the House Chamber door:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThFsZ_9P78U&bpctr=1613058301

[milk]

The capitol police would have been justified in shooting every one of the insurrectionists posing a threat to members of congress. Ashli Babbit mattered because shooting her slowed the assault on the senate floor and allowed legislators time to escape.

Her death was caused by trump. She is a kind of victim in a way.

Well, the rich would consider tax cuts for the rich a gain.

However, the rift in society, even in families, has been there much longer.

That kind of thing has always caused disagreement. One can even argue that Reagan and Bush were much worse. But, I could discuss this with people who felt differently. A lot of Dems voted Reagan for various reasons. It was a policy debate and I would say Reagan and Bush did much more tangible damage. Trump isn't about policy. It's about reality vs. some kind of delusion. The whole thing is very shallow and weird. But to me, the events at the Capitol are not something to reasonably disagree about. Trump's people will tell you straight out that trump knows what he's saying to whom and for what. These people are not an accident of fate, nor is it difficult to explain. Trump created chaos and violence by building up the delusion and resentment day by day and step by step.     

[Mandryka]

Had to watch this, to know just what Trump and his mob are capable of, and have done

Thanks for this.

It's not my country, I'm one step removed, so although I followed the events it was a bit distant. This video made me realise for the first time what a shocking thing it was. 

[BasilValentine]

Her death was caused by trump. She is a kind of victim in a way.   

I'd say this is true to a great extent. But at some point people have to take personal responsibility for the ideas they choose to credit and act upon. It's called being an adult.

In other news: Trump is almost surely going to be indicted for election interference and other violations in Georgia. His call to Brad Raffensberger is all the evidence anyone should need. He could be jailed for this.

[Herman]

I'd say this is true to a great extent. But at some point people have to take personal responsibility for the ideas they choose to credit and act upon. It's called being an adult.

In other news: Trump is almost surely going to be indicted for election fraud and other violations in Georgia. His call to Brad Raffensberger is all the evidence anyone should need. He could be jailed for this.

As many observers have noted, these assailants were having the time of their life. It's obviously a huge adrenalin rush to be part of such massive act of aggression, being a part in a human machine. Breaking stuff, scaring cops, yelling all together you're going to kill / hang various folks you only know from TV.

Like I said, I suspect many of these people were aided by cocaine or other aggression-enhancing drugs.

The 'unarmed woman' was part of exactly such a group who was going to get hold of Congress members and hold them accountable in a physical way. If she was not armed, the next man was. She was warned there was a gun pointed at her group, and she kept on trying to break down the doors. She must have been deliriously happy at her heroic persistence.

[Que]

No one seems to be mentioning the unarmed woman who was shot dead. One assumes she didn't matter?

I believe people are shot in the US for much less than invading the buildings of parliament and interrupting its proceedings, much less.... And frequently in the back too, without warning.

But I admit she was a victim as well, of Trump...

[Fëanor]

The 'unarmed woman' was part of exactly such a group who was going to get hold of Congress members and hold them accountable in a physical way. If she was not armed, the next man was. She was warned there was a gun pointed at her group, and she kept on trying to break down the doors. She must have been deliriously happy at her heroic persistence.

I see it as a miracle that more firearms didn't turn up amongst the Capital insurrectionists.  I attribute that to Washington DC's not permitting of carrying guns;  I suspect those people understood that if they showed themselves with guns, the Washington city (Metropolitan) police would have immediately arrested them.  That was showing some good sense despite that various inciters were telling them that they ought to ignore DC's anti-gun laws.

Was the woman in question one of those who was dissuaded by DC law's?  Would she otherwise have brought a firearm?  Her death was part of the greater tragedy, but Capital Police were doing their duty to protect legislators from a violent mob.

[BasilValentine]

Great! Shooting unarmed women is justified in your book. You approve of killing then? Doesn't surprise me. But  of course you will be one of those people who is urging gun-control

Are you blind? Every one of the insurrectionists by that door was armed! Like the others, they had been beating police officers with anything they could get their hands on. In any case, whether or not she was armed is irrelevant. That was the door to the House Chambers being broken down. That officer squared up to put a bullet in the first person through the door because that was the only hope of stopping them and it's unlikely he knew whether or not members of congress were safe yet. He was absolutely right and possibly duty bound to shoot her.

But to answer more broadly: Yes, I completely approve of killing insurrectionists bent on violence. I believe the officers should have responded much earlier with deadly force. By their restraint they were cutting it really close, as we all now know by how narrow the margin of escape was for the elected officials. I think the officers should have shot every person coming through the windows until the rest backed off or they were out of ammunition, whichever came first.

And yes I'm for gun control! You think it's a good idea that deranged terrorists like those who stormed the capitol should be allowed to have guns?

[Karl Henning]

He may be medically incapable of arguing in good faith....

[SimonNZ]

Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump party
Breakaway group would run on 'principled conservatism' platform, say those involved in discussions


also via the Guardian:

Texas lawyer, trapped by cat filter on Zoom call, informs judge he is not a cat
Lawyer Rod Ponton unable to undo filter during court debate

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump party
Breakaway group would run on 'principled conservatism' platform, say those involved in discussions


also via the Guardian:

Texas lawyer, trapped by cat filter on Zoom call, informs judge he is not a cat
Lawyer Rod Ponton unable to undo filter during court debate

Re:  the Republicans--good for them and I think good for the country!

Re:  the kitten filter....yes, funny story!  Vandermolen posted it over in one of the cat threads.