USA Politics (redux)

[Karl Henning]

On 'Hatred' and the Trump Impeachment

The trial isn't about Trump as a person. But it is just and wise to hate his wicked words and deeds.


So it is no sin to hate the words and deeds of Donald Trump. If you do not hate cruelty, deception, and violent chaos, what are you?

Trump and his acolytes have attempted to conflate hatred of the man's actions and what he stands for with hatred of his voters. That is false. Some of his voters are wicked, and their words and deeds merit hatred. But many are deluded. Trump's attempt to hide behind their skirts is yet another offense.

It is he who stirs the worst hatred—baseless hatred. He incites hatred of others based on lies—his opponents are child molesters, Muslim Americans danced in the streets after 9/11, immigrants are rapists and murderers, a landslide election victory was stolen. Those lies incite baseless hatred. They are evil. Shall we not hate these deceits and punish the deceiver?

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil."

[Herman]

Van der Veen is sight-reading his material, following the lines with a pen.

One of his constant things is telling Raskins he doesn't know constituational law and senate rules.

Raskins has taught constitutional law for 25 years and is a senator.

Van der Veen is an ambulance-chasing injury attorney.

[Fëanor]

On 'Hatred' and the Trump Impeachment

The trial isn't about Trump as a person. But it is just and wise to hate his wicked words and deeds.

So it is no sin to hate the words and deeds of Donald Trump. If you do not hate cruelty, deception, and violent chaos, what are you?

Trump and his acolytes have attempted to conflate hatred of the man's actions and what he stands for with hatred of his voters. That is false. Some of his voters are wicked, and their words and deeds merit hatred. But many are deluded. Trump's attempt to hide behind their skirts is yet another offense.

It is he who stirs the worst hatred—baseless hatred. He incites hatred of others based on lies—his opponents are child molesters, Muslim Americans danced in the streets after 9/11, immigrants are rapists and murderers, a landslide election victory was stolen. Those lies incite baseless hatred. They are evil. Shall we not hate these deceits and punish the deceiver?

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil."

Can't say I agree:  one may well "hate" (or despise or choose your word) the man.  It was clear long before his announcing his candidacy.  He is a life-long con-man as evidenced by his business career.  Further more, in my layman's diagnosis, he is a sociopath and pathological narcissist.  With these characteristic it was predictable that he would lack genuine regard for others, and -- worse -- that his apprehension of the truth and judgement would deeply flawed.

In the end his sociopathy and narcissism resulted in his sincere belief that the election results was fraudulent.  BUT that belief doesn't absolve him guilt for his seditious promotion of the BIG LIE of the stolen election.  No leader can commit a worse crime than illegitimately undermining faith in a valid electoral process.  It wasn't Trump words on January 6th that were the primary incitement:  it was the BIG LIE that gave his duped supporters the license to insurrection.  This lie began months before the election and persists today.

Want to hate Trump?  Feel free:  he is worthy of hatred.

[vandermolen]

Time for "Sure, I look like one, but I am NOT a cat!" -thread for those with existential crisis. 

Brilliant idea! 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

43-57, Trump has been found to be not-guilty and has been acquitted of inciting an insurrection.

[ritter]

Eppur si muove..... 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Eppur si muove..... 

Sorry, but I don't know your reference--and translation?

[ritter]

Sorry, but I don't know your reference--and translation?

"And yet it moves"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_yet_it_moves

Good evening, PD.

[BasilValentine]

This man is yet another "Only for TV" opportunistic republicans, shouting and yelling and acting out (and thus whipping up) anger in the audience.

It's five weeks after January 6th and they are at it full bore again.

I'm afraid you're giving the man too much credit. He's just an ambulance chaser from Philadelphia hoping to raise his profile among insurance scammers, a bottom feeder hoping for a little more chum to fall into the depths of his squalor and obscurity — exactly the kind of lawyer Trump deserves and exactly the kind Trump will never pay. Imagine the humiliation of republican senators who now must pretend they were persuaded by this specimen.

[T. D.]

I'm afraid you're giving the man too much credit. He's just an ambulance chaser from Philadelphia hoping to raise his profile among insurance scammers, a bottom feeder hoping for a little more chum to fall into the depths of his squalor and obscurity — exactly the kind of lawyer Trump deserves and exactly the kind Trump will never pay. Imagine the humiliation of republican senators who now must pretend they were persuaded by this specimen.

[Emphasis added] I doubt it. If I were to draw a Venn diagram as a thought experiment, the circles labeled (GOP Legislators) and (susceptible to feeling shame) would have a null intersection. 

[SimonNZ]

Ellie Bartlett: "It's apocryphal, Dad. A story for tourists. If Galileo had muttered 'it still moves' after they made him recant his life's work they would have killed him on the spot."

from the episode titled Eppur Si Muove

[Brahmsian]

7 Republicans did the right thing. Out of 50. Not a very hopeful or promising sign (although also not surprising).

[Pohjolas Daughter]

"And yet it moves"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_yet_it_moves

Good evening, PD.

O.k., so state your position/comments further.  What do you believe is going on...and quit the quotes please.

PD

[SimonNZ]

O.k., so state your position/comments further.  What do you believe is going on...and quit the quotes please.

PD

I think the analogy would be:

"He's acquitted by his loyalists", but...

..."He's still guilty."

[prémont]

"He's acquitted by his loyalists", but...

..."He's still guilty."

That is the paradox of a political court. He could easily have been found guilty in a legal court.

[SimonNZ]

omward...

In Georgia, a New District Attorney Starts Circling Trump and His Allies
Fani Willis has opened a criminal investigation into efforts by the Trump camp to overturn the former president's loss in Georgia. In an interview, Ms. Willis described a wide-ranging inquiry.

"After six weeks as a district attorney, Fani T. Willis is taking on a former president.

And not just that. In an interview about her newly announced criminal investigation into election interference in Georgia, Ms. Willis, the district attorney of Fulton County, made it clear that the scope of her inquiry would encompass the pressure campaign on state officials by former President Donald J. Trump as well as the activities of his allies.

"An investigation is like an onion," she said. "You never know. You pull something back, and then you find something else."

She added, "Anything that is relevant to attempts to interfere with the Georgia election will be subject to review."

Ms. Willis, whose jurisdiction encompasses much of Atlanta, has suddenly become a new player in the post-presidency of Mr. Trump. She will decide whether to bring criminal charges over Mr. Trump's phone call to Georgia's secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, asking him to "find" votes to erase the former president's loss there, and other efforts by Trump allies to overturn the election results. The severity of the legal threat to Mr. Trump is not yet clear, but Ms. Willis has started laying out some details about the inquiry.
She and her office have indicated that the investigation will include Senator Lindsey Graham's phone call to Mr. Raffensperger in November about mail-in ballots; the abrupt removal last month of Byung J. Pak, the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, who earned Mr. Trump's enmity for not advancing his debunked assertions about election fraud; and the false claims that Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, made before state legislative committees.

She laid out an array of possible criminal charges in letters sent to state officials and agencies asking them to preserve documents, providing a partial map of the potential exposure of Mr. Trump and his allies. Mr. Trump's calls to state officials urging them to subvert the election, for instance, could run afoul of a Georgia statute dealing with "criminal solicitation to commit election fraud," one of the charges outlined in the letters, which if prosecuted as a felony is punishable by at least a year in prison."

The misinformation spread by Mr. Giuliani could prove problematic, as Ms. Willis said in her letters that she would review "the making of false statements to state and local governmental bodies." Georgia law bars "any false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement" within "the jurisdiction of any department or agency of state government."

Ms. Willis is also open to considering not just conspiracy but racketeering charges. As she put it in the interview, racketeering could apply to anyone who uses a legal entity — presumably anything from a government agency to that person's own public office — to conduct overt acts for an illegal purpose. In this case, it applies to the pressure the president and his allies exerted on Georgia officials to overturn the election.[...]

[Herman]

I'm afraid you're giving the man too much credit. He's just an ambulance chaser from Philadelphia hoping to raise his profile among insurance scammers, a bottom feeder hoping for a little more chum to fall into the depths of his squalor and obscurity — exactly the kind of lawyer Trump deserves and exactly the kind Trump will never pay. Imagine the humiliation of republican senators who now must pretend they were persuaded by this specimen.

I know he's just a personal injury attorney, way out of his depth, but he did get hours of national (make that international) TV. You may or may not have noticed that on his second day he stopped addressing the senate and started talking to the camera directly, opening with "Good morning, America," or some such megalomaniac absurdity.

The intriguing thing about guys like this is his unashamed embracing his worst instincts and glorifying in them. His snarling nastiness, the desk pounding, the constant putting down of "the other side," who just happened to have 25 years of experience in studying and teaching constitutional law (in other words, the now familiar "I'm not going to let the experts tell me anything"). The way he put the clock back full cycle as if January 6th has never happened, or, if it did, it was GOOD, speaks volumes about where the country is going. I don't know what money he's making in the dog-bite business, but I would not be surprised if he'll cross over into national GOP elective politics if the donors pony up. He could be the Pennsylvania version of Ted Cruz.

[Que]

McConnell after the vote:

"There's no question that president Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day"

Well he had his chance to get rid of Trump and save the traditional conservative identity of the Republican Party, but was obviously afraid that it would blow up in his face. I guess all things considered, it was already too late and traditionalists have lost control. Unless some miracle happens and Trump becomes ill or dies, he will run again in four years and drive the GOP of the cliff.

Q

[The new erato]

He tries to ride two horses to secure reelection of Republican senators. The important thing is not to alienate trumpists as well as moderates. Other things doesn't matter in the equation. Remember; reelection with all the money that comes with it, are the most important thing.

[Karl Henning]

McConnell after the vote:

"There's no question that president Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day"

Well he had his chance to get rid of Trump and save the traditional conservative identity of the Republican Party, but was obviously afraid that it would blow up in his face. I guess all things considered, it was already too late and traditionalists have lost control. Unless some miracle happens and Trump becomes ill or dies, he will run again in four years and drive the GOP of the cliff.

Q

Let the Reublicans' moral contortions begin [anew]