USA Politics (redux)

[Florestan]

"Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn,
Im dunkeln Laub die Goldorangen glühn,
Ein sanfter Wind vom blauen Himmel weht,
Die Myrte still und hoch der Lorbeer steht?
Kennst du es wohl? Dahin!
Dahin möcht' ich mit dir,
O mein Geliebter, ziehn".

Dahin! Dahin!
Möcht' ich mit dir, o mein Geliebter, ziehn.

Good evening Andrei, Poju and all...

Bona tarda amic meu!

[71 dB]

All points duly noted, Poju. Thanks.

You're welcome.

If you ask me, it's got something to do with the climate. 

Cold climate probably explains at least some of it. Warm countries tend to be extrovert.

Japanese people are similarly "quiet" and reserved as Finns. Japanese people living in Finland tell they "feel at home" here because of this.

[Florestan]

That's a great (and IMO) very true quote.

Of course it is.

I always say it to the German bosses of the company I work for...

Next time tell them this:

Die Gedanken sind frei, wer kann sie erraten?
Sei fliehen vorbei wie nächtliche Schatten
Kein Mensch kann sie Wissen, kein Jäger erschiessen
Es bleibet dabei: die Gedanken sind frei...

[71 dB]

You do know that he is a standup comedian right?  This is not like we're sitting down with a historian or an economist.

I don't see the problem here. Are you saying standup comedians can't understand what historians and economists say about society?

As far as I know one needs to be witty and observant to become a good standup comedian. So, being one might actually help in noticing things around. Also, the person presenting videos are chosen based on their ability of perform and standup comedian are entertaining performers. We don't know who has done the research/writing for the video. Could have been a historian or an economist. Or the standup comedian himself...

My point is this attempt of discrediting the video I posted is not only unnecessory, but also silly as hell. 

[Karl Henning]

It's a sign of normality, and a great relief, that nowadays US politics seem to be have reverted to being so boring (which should be read as a compliment in this context), so as to turn the thread dedicated it into one in which the wonders of Finland have been discussed for the past  three pages. Hallelujah! 

Thanks for finding the upside to this thread becoming a Poju-fest. 

wake me when we're talking US Politics again.

[greg]

- People seem cold at first before you get to know them (Finns are rather introverted and don't do smalltalk so Americans feel strange here)

Basically polite but quiet and emotionally unavailable to strangers, right?

With that aspect, I'd fit right in. I feel stranger here in the US tbh, we have many different cultures/subcultures here but hardly any of it resonates with me.

Japan is a little closer in the fact that it is also a country of introverts, but it also shares the same problem of the US, I don't know what to call it, toxic positivity or something, maybe? Where everything is good, all the time, and people can't express their true feelings if they aren't feeling good, or don't like something, etc....

How is Finland in that regard? Seems much of northern Europe is more real based on what I've heard (especially England).

[71 dB]

wake me when we're talking US Politics again.

Real Americans don't want to learn anything outside the US, right? When the facts say the US sucks at almost everything real Americans put their fingers in the ears and sing "LA LA LA LA I don't hear you LA LA LA..."

Maybe we should talk about the things in which the US is REALLY good at so Americans here don't feel so bad? Here is one: Wrestling! The US is unbelievable good at that, the best entertainment in the World! Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin and about half a million other legendary entertainers! I am not kidding, it is something I really admire about the US.

[DavidW]

Are you saying standup comedians can't understand what historians and economists say about society?

Yes I am.

[Daverz]

Yes I am.

The Gravel Institute videos are meant as a counter to the moronic and risible Prague U videos.  In that regard they do a good job, though anyone with a few neurons left firing could probably debunk a PU video handily.

[SimonNZ]

Real Americans don't want to learn anything outside the US, right? When the facts say the US sucks at almost everything real Americans put their fingers in the ears and sing "LA LA LA LA I don't hear you LA LA LA..."

Maybe we should talk about the things in which the US is REALLY good at so Americans here don't feel so bad? Here is one: Wrestling! The US is unbelievable good at that, the best entertainment in the World! Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin and about half a million other legendary entertainers! I am not kidding, it is something I really admire about the US.

ffs...I strongly encourage you to remove and prohibit everything of American origin from your life.

[71 dB]

Basically polite but quiet and emotionally unavailable to strangers, right?

Pretty much. Emotionally unavailable to strangers, because we have "minding my own business" mentality, but IF a stranger asks for help, help will be given in a friendly manner! 0:)

With that aspect, I'd fit right in. I feel stranger here in the US tbh, we have many different cultures/subcultures here but hardly any of it resonates with me.

Sorry to hear that. So, you find those subcultures too extrovert to your taste?

Japan is a little closer in the fact that it is also a country of introverts, but it also shares the same problem of the US, I don't know what to call it, toxic positivity or something, maybe? Where everything is good, all the time, and people can't express their true feelings if they aren't feeling good, or don't like something, etc....

How is Finland in that regard? Seems much of northern Europe is more real based on what I've heard (especially England).

Japanese culture has the concepts of 本絵 (Honne, real opinions) ja 建前 (Tatemae, white lies) which makes it difficult for people from other cultures to know what Japanese people really think. Perhaps this is what makes it look "toxic" to you? In Finnish culture people tend to say what they think quite directly, so in general Finns say what they mean*. You might have seen this from the style I write here.  When a Finn tells you to meet him/her at 2:00 pm it means 2:00 pm, not 2:15 pm. If you arrive 15 minutes late it is considered wasting 15 minutes of the other people's time. If you are traveling toward the place of meeting and 1:50 pm you realize because of Force Majeure you will be late you can call to the other person and inform him/her you will be about 15 minutes late. A few minutes late is ok, because we are not as punctual as Japanese people, but especially for people coming from African countries things look VERY punctual here.

* In American smalltalk culture people ask each other "How are you?", but it doesn't often mean they are genuinely interested. In Finnish culture we simply don't do the smalltalk and don't even ask. It's just two ways of not being interested. Both ways work, because people in that culture get used to how it is, but when an American comes Finland, or a Finn goes to the US strong culture shocks are warranted. 

[71 dB]

Yes I am.

Well man you should re-think your assumptions...

The Gravel Institute videos are meant as a counter to the moronic and risible Prague U videos.  In that regard they do a good job, though anyone with a few neurons left firing could probably debunk a PU video handily.

That is true. 

[greg]

Pretty much. Emotionally unavailable to strangers, because we have "minding my own business" mentality, but IF a stranger asks for help, help will be given in a friendly manner! 0:)

Same.

Sorry to hear that. So, you find those subcultures too extrovert to your taste?

Yes. Very.

* In American smalltalk culture people ask each other "How are you?", but it doesn't often mean they are genuinely interested. In Finnish culture we simply don't do the smalltalk and don't even ask.

Nice.
yeah...  and you always have to answer "good," why does the English speaking world do that? If you are honestly not good, it's awkward to kill the vibe by saying so unless you are talking to someone really close to you.

Perhaps this is what makes it look "toxic" to you?

Actually the toxicity is more on the US side, rather than the Japanese side. Here it's usually looked down on if you aren't some sort of bubbly or charismatic extrovert. And people will tell you to smile or sometimes make fun of you if don't, idk, maybe those where just the specific environments I was in. The US is a huge country, can't really speak for all of it. But it does have this sort of reputation.

The only toxicity that might be going on in the Japanese side is the expectations of employees. It just feels like something similar is going on with retail workers, similar to the American "customer is always right" toxic positivity nonsense. Probably a similar thing with different causes, tying in together with their work culture/business in general, though. Like, you'll see on average Japanese employees being super friendly and animated, but you know they don't feel that way deep down inside. Take the next train and see half of the passengers look like they are about to die from fatigue (not only me observing that, my mom also observed that separately).

[Fëanor]

Oh, come on! You're not 180, are you? 

Close enough. 

[T. D.]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/idaho-legislature-shuts-down-due-145259066.html

KEITH RIDLER
Fri, March 19, 2021, 10:52 AM
BOISE, Idaho (AP) — The Idaho Legislature voted Friday to shut down for several weeks due to an outbreak of COVID-19.

Lawmakers in the House and Senate made the move to recess until April 6 with significant unfinished business, including setting budgets and pushing through a huge income tax cut.

At least six of the 70 House members tested positive for the illness in the last week, and there are fears a highly contagious variant of COVID-19 is in the Statehouse.

"The House has had several positive tests, so it is probably prudent that the House take a step back for a couple weeks until things calm down and it's not hot around here for COVID," House Majority Leader Mike Moyle said before the votes.

Five of those who tested positive are Republicans and one is Democrat. Another Republican lawmaker is self-isolating. The chamber has a super-majority of 58 Republicans, most of whom rarely or never wear masks. All the Democratic lawmakers typically wear masks.

[Karl Henning]

Easy to tell who the jerkweeds are, I guess....

[Fëanor]

Real Americans don't want to learn anything outside the US, right? When the facts say the US sucks at almost everything real Americans put their fingers in the ears and sing "LA LA LA LA I don't hear you LA LA LA..."

Maybe we should talk about the things in which the US is REALLY good at so Americans here don't feel so bad? Here is one: Wrestling! The US is unbelievable good at that, the best entertainment in the World! Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin and about half a million other legendary entertainers! I am not kidding, it is something I really admire about the US.

BAM !! Says a lot when one says that one admires the USA most for pro wrestling.

We Canadians probably see and interact with ordinary Americans more than anybody else.  The ordinary Americans assumes US superiority in pretty much everything, "American exceptionalism".  Some of us Canucks actually agree; most just sigh and put up with it.  Personally I believed the USA was basically democratic and Americans were sensible on balance:  then Donald Trump was elected.

Very largely Trump was elected because because the USA is very limited & flawed democracy -- which shouldn't be surprising because that is what the so-called "Founding Fathers" intended.

A major flaw is the extent to which the states not only control their own Constitutional purviews but also effectively dictate the Federal agenda.  That means in turn that the country is controlled by a rural, small town, and small state minority.  The mechanisms for state control over the Federal government are principally:

• Each state gets two Senators.  So Wyoming with about 528,000 people gets the same votes are California with 39,368,00
• The non-rep-by-pop Senate can veto US cabinet, ambassadorial, and, importantly, Supreme Court nominees
• The states control Federal (a) district definitions, (b) voting lists, and (c) election procedures.  Furthermore, in most states partisan committees control these things.  Results include gerrymandering of districts and voter suppression
• The Electoral College, which abstracts the voters from Presidential results, is regulated by state legislatures;  one result is that the "winner takes all" in all but 2 states -- this is the specific mechanism whereby Trump got elected POTUS in 2016 despite loosing the popular vote to Clinton.

Another important anti-democratic aspect of the US system include are Federal election laws that:

• Render ineffectual candidate and party election spending limits
• Allow covert election spending by corporations and other non-humans.

[71 dB]

Actually the toxicity is more on the US side, rather than the Japanese side. Here it's usually looked down on if you aren't some sort of bubbly or charismatic extrovert. And people will tell you to smile or sometimes make fun of you if don't, idk, maybe those where just the specific environments I was in. The US is a huge country, can't really speak for all of it. But it does have this sort of reputation.

The only toxicity that might be going on in the Japanese side is the expectations of employees. It just feels like something similar is going on with retail workers, similar to the American "customer is always right" toxic positivity nonsense. Probably a similar thing with different causes, tying in together with their work culture/business in general, though. Like, you'll see on average Japanese employees being super friendly and animated, but you know they don't feel that way deep down inside. Take the next train and see half of the passengers look like they are about to die from fatigue (not only me observing that, my mom also observed that separately).

Yes, the US does have that kind of reputation.

[71 dB]

BAM !! Says a lot when one says that one admires the USA most for pro wrestling.

Well, not perhaps the most, but I mentioned it as one example. It doesn't matter what we think about wrestling personally, the truth is all other countries combined can't hold the candle to the US on this. However, there are also many other things I admire about the US and I used to admire the US overall in the past much more, but sadly I have learned so much negative stuff and apart from the strong areas (often related to popular culture and entertainment) the US is a failed state, an empire of intellectual and moral decline.

We Canadians probably see and interact with ordinary Americans more than anybody else.  The ordinary Americans assumes US superiority in pretty much everything, "American exceptionalism".  Some of us Canucks actually agree; most just sigh and put up with it.  Personally I believed the USA was basically democratic and Americans were sensible on balance:  then Donald Trump was elected.

Very largely Trump was elected because because the USA is very limited & flawed democracy -- which shouldn't be surprising because that is what the so-called "Founding Fathers" intended.

A major flaw is the extent to which the states not only control their own Constitutional purviews but also effectively dictate the Federal agenda.  That means in turn that the country is controlled by a rural, small town, and small state minority.  The mechanisms for state control over the Federal government are principally:

• Each state gets two Senators.  So Wyoming with about 528,000 people gets the same votes are California with 39,368,00
• The non-rep-by-pop Senate can veto US cabinet, ambassadorial, and, importantly, Supreme Court nominees
• The states control Federal (a) district definitions, (b) voting lists, and (c) election procedures.  Furthermore, in most states partisan committees control these things.  Results include gerrymandering of districts and voter suppression
• The Electoral College, which abstracts the voters from Presidential results, is regulated by state legislatures;  one result is that the "winner takes all" in all but 2 states -- this is the specific mechanism whereby Trump got elected POTUS in 2016 despite loosing the popular vote to Clinton.

Another important anti-democratic aspect of the US system include are Federal election laws that:

• Render ineffectual candidate and party election spending limits
• Allow covert election spending by corporations and other non-humans.

Good analyse of the democratic process in the US. What I would add is blatant corruption and the fact that bribing politicians is legal, which is pretty insane in a system expected (?) to be democratic.

[SimonNZ]

If all that's left for this thread to do is provide a stage for 71s miseducation then it may as well be closed

Imo.