USA Politics (redux)

[71 dB]

Going the "I feel insulted" route is usually not a good idea. It's annoying if somebody from overseas criticizes your country, but here is Texas' own Beto O'Rourke calling Texas "a failed state":

I have told several times I have Asperger's meaning my style of communication lacks the focus on making other people "feel good." In my opinion Americans do better and are happier if they have (affordable) healthcare, clean drinkable tap water, paid vacation time by law, living wage, tuition free higher education and in general a less corrupted government that works (also) for regular people and can be trusted. We foreigners would do a disservice to Americans if we kept praising the US blindly despite of all the things that are wrong and could be much better.

My criticism is toward the corrupted system and greedy politicians who do not serve the regular people as they should and instead use their political power to enrich themselves and those who bribe them. The US should be a beacon of democracy, not an oligarchy. In general I don't have anything against Americans, not even MAGA people, because I know they are sadly misled victims of the system. The humane approach is to try to help misled people to find their way out of their rabbit holes (this is actually similar to convincing people to abandon their religious beliefs and become atheists). Regular people on the left and right should put aside small differences regarding cultural issues and work together to deal with the real divide in the country: The 1 % versus the 99 %.

Americans can feel flattered by the fact people in other countries are this interested of their politics. It's because we are talking about a superpower. Whoever is in power in the US matters all over the World.

[71 dB]

Looks like NYC Mayoral candidate Andrew Yang is in the process of transforming into a typical calculating Democrat.
He doesn't sound the same man he was just two years ago... 

[Fëanor]

Americans don't really pay less taxes than for example people in Nordic countries when you take into account that in the US a lot of the taxes are private (such as healthcare premiums - it is a tax because Obamacare mandates it) so when you add normal and private taxes you end up high taxes. In the US the rich and corporations pay very little taxes, in same cases zero (e.g. Amazon) taxes so regular people need to pay more.

So painfully obvious but many (most?) Americans are oblivious to this common sense.  In Canada too we pay more tax but pay zero premiums for essential medical care.

I was amazed when a middle-aged American, (a poster on another forum), bragged that he paid "only" $13,000 for health insurance for his wife and himself.  I imagine they pay some income tax too.

[Fëanor]

My criticism is toward the corrupted system and greedy politicians who do not serve the regular people as they should and instead use their political power to enrich themselves and those who bribe them. The US should be a beacon of democracy, not an oligarchy. In general I don't have anything against Americans, not even MAGA people, because I know they are sadly misled victims of the system.
...

Many Americans failed to realize that their system was designed as an oligarchy from the start.  Most "found fathers", (where were the mothers but then we mustn't be anachronistic), were members of the elite of landowners and merchants and were explicitly fearful of the ordinary small-hold farmers and workers.  They designed the Constitution accordingly.

Also these elites who comprised the "founding fathers" were fearful of "central government" and sought to limit its power.  Part of it was that the only example of central government before them was the (irrelevant by then) British Parliament.  But more critical to understand was that the American colonies had be founded and evolved separately from each other and, (not withstanding British appointed governors in some cases), were largely managed by the oligarchic elites who contributed the FF.  Simply put, they were jealous of their local oligarchic control and didn't what to surrender much to a federal government.

This stuff is rarely taught in US publics schools.

[Florestan]

This is really over the top...I am not American, I admire many things of that country, I think there's also many things that can be improved there, but I take strong exception to some bloke in Finland (who barely knows the US, unless it's from propaganda on YouTube) insulting the place day in and day out.

Enough is enough....

+ 2.

[Florestan]

This stuff is rarely taught in US publics schools.

Is it routinely taught in Canadian public schools?

[drogulus]

So painfully obvious but many (most?) Americans are oblivious to this common sense.  In Canada too we pay more tax but pay zero premiums for essential medical care.

     It's more important that good things are paid for than the exact architecture of the payment system. If you have a large poor class resources will be underutilized in a country that has the resources to use. Whole schools of economists are growed up to argue that the poor must stay that way because using all of our stuff will cause money to run out. The arguments make no sense since money systems aren't designed to run out at a nominal end point.

     Uh oh, starting tomorrow dollars won't spend!

[Fëanor]

Is it routinely taught in Canadian public schools?

Do you deny what I've said?  Can you refute it?

Unfortunately history is glossed in public schools in most countries.  What do they teach in Romania?

[Fëanor]

+ 2.

Ban the pain.

Before banning 71dB first refute him.  (Same in my case.)

[Florestan]

Do you deny what I've said? 

No. Especially as I know of no country which was not initially designed as, or did not eventually turned into, an oligarchy.

Unfortunately history is glossed in public schools in most countries.

That's exactly why I asked the question in the first place.

[Florestan]

Ban the pain.

Before banning 71dB first refute him.  (Same in my case.)

Whoever suggested, let alone demanded, that 71db, or you for that matter, be banned? Certainly not I (heck, only recently I had a humorous and civil exchange with him right here), nor ritter nor greg nor Karl nor JBS nor Todd nor anyone else that I can think of who at some point or another disagreed strongly with him. I am opposed to banning people in principle, save in the worst cases of unrepentant bad and uncivil behaviour, or trolling, which is not even remotely the case for 71dB or you. On the contrary, I'm a free-speech extremist. 

What ritter implies, and I agree, is that 71dB has been repeating fo years, day in, day out, over and over again, the same things concerning the USA, some of which are blatantly anti-American and which, as SimonNZ (with whom I'm mostly in complete disagreement) correctly noted, if applied to any other country and nation would be qualified as racist. He also repeatedly said he won't do it again, yet here he is at it --- again.

For the record, I think 71dB is a nice guy --- actually, I think the same about every currently active GMGer, including you --- and I'm sure that if we met face to face we'd get along quite fine as long we wouldn't discuss politics, especially USA politics --- actually, I think the same about many currently active GMGers, including you. 

Peace and love, brother!

[Florestan]

What do they teach in Romania?

During  most of my school years (1979-1989; I finished high school in 1991) they taught very little about the USA and very much about the glorious Romanian history, from Decebalus and Burebista to Ceaușescu. Needless to say, the only period of Romanian history constantly denigrated was 1866 - 1948, ie the so-called bourgeois-landowner regime, actually the most liberal, constitutional and relatively democratic period of our history before 1989.

Nowadays I really don't know what they teach. Ask me again in 3 years, when my son will go 5th grader and start the study of history. 

[71 dB]

So painfully obvious but many (most?) Americans are oblivious to this common sense.  In Canada too we pay more tax but pay zero premiums for essential medical care.

I was amazed when a middle-aged American, (a poster on another forum), bragged that he paid "only" $13,000 for health insurance for his wife and himself.  I imagine they pay some income tax too.

$13,000 is brutal unless your income level is really high. It's also crazy how little the insurance companies cover when something happens. Despite of paying this much for premiums there are tons of out of pocket expenses and if the doctor happens to be out of network you are screwed. It is an insane system. Most Americans know it, but the politicians are too corrupt to do anything about it.

Anyway, when you have gotten used to something it is difficult to imagine alternatives.

Many Americans failed to realize that their system was designed as an oligarchy from the start.  Most "found fathers", (where were the mothers but then we mustn't be anachronistic), were members of the elite of landowners and merchants and were explicitly fearful of the ordinary small-hold farmers and workers.  They designed the Constitution accordingly.

Countries can evolve with time. No need to practice 18th century politics forever. The US constitution might "allow" oligarchy, but what the country is is what people do. The US wasn't this oligarchic in the 50's for example. The middle class was very strong. Without the "Buckley v. Valeo" -type of "money = speech" rulings The US would be less oligarchic today.

Also these elites who comprised the "founding fathers" were fearful of "central government" and sought to limit its power.  Part of it was that the only example of central government before them was the (irrelevant by then) British Parliament.  But more critical to understand was that the American colonies had be founded and evolved separately from each other and, (not withstanding British appointed governors in some cases), were largely managed by the oligarchic elites who contributed the FF.  Simply put, they were jealous of their local oligarchic control and didn't what to surrender much to a federal government.

This stuff is rarely taught in US publics schools.

You mean never?

[71 dB]

    It's more important that good things are paid for than the exact architecture of the payment system. If you have a large poor class resources will be underutilized in a country that has the resources to use. Whole schools of economists are growed up to argue that the poor must stay that way because using all of our stuff will cause money to run out. The arguments make no sense since money systems aren't designed to run out at a nominal end point.

     Uh oh, starting tomorrow dollars won't spend!

Actually the exact architecture of the payment system can affect incentives, so it does matter.

[71 dB]

What ritter implies, and I agree, is that 71dB has been repeating fo years, day in, day out, over and over again, the same things concerning the USA, some of which are blatantly anti-American and which, as SimonNZ (with whom I'm mostly in complete disagreement) correctly noted, if applied to any other country and nation would be qualified as racist. He also repeatedly said he won't do it again, yet here he is at it --- again.

For the thousand time: I am NOT anti-American! I am anti-oligarchy, anti-corruption, anti-crony capitalism etc. I am against those things in every country they run wild, but because I don't really know about politics outside my own country Finland (where those things don't really exist) and the US , I don't make ignorant claims about corruption in Sudan or Romania. It makes more sense to call me anti-Sudanian or anti-Romanian, because I haven't had the interest to follow the politics in those countries.

[drogulus]

Actually the exact architecture of the payment system can affect incentives, so it does matter.

     You have to allow people to buy the output. How it's done is less important than doing it. A large poor class is a wasteful extravagance.

[Florestan]

I am anti-oligarchy, anti-corruption, anti-crony capitalism etc. I am against those things in every country they run wild, but because I don't really know about politics outside my own country Finland (where those things don't really exist)

Re:oligarchy --- Do you mean that those who comprise the Finnish government and parliament have not been mostly the same people from the same parties for years, if not decades? If you take the Finnish political class as a whole, what percentage of the Finnish population would they make?

Re: corruption --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Finland

Re: crony capitalism --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia#Controversies

[Fëanor]

During  most of my school years (1979-1989; I finished high school in 1991) they taught very little about the USA and very much about the glorious Romanian history, from Decebalus and Burebista to Ceaușescu. Needless to say, the only period of Romanian history constantly denigrated was 1866 - 1948, ie the so-called bourgeois-landowner regime, actually the most liberal, constitutional and relatively democratic period of our history before 1989.

Nowadays I really don't know what they teach. Ask me again in 3 years, when my son will go 5th grader and start the study of history. 

I suppose it's the proximity of Canada to the USA and the significance to the economy and culture of the latter to the former that means the Canadians are relatively, (I say relatively), well-informed of US history, though in my own case much of it is self-education.

[Florestan]

I suppose it's the proximity of Canada to the USA and the significance to the economy and culture of the latter to the former that means the Canadians are relatively, (I say relatively), well-informed of US history, though in my own case much of it is self-education.

When it comes to history, both Romanian and universal, the same applies to me.

[71 dB]

For the record, I think 71dB is a nice guy --- actually, I think the same about every currently active GMGer, including you --- and I'm sure that if we met face to face we'd get along quite fine as long we wouldn't discuss politics, especially USA politics --- actually, I think the same about many currently active GMGers, including you. 

Peace and love, brother!

Thanks for these kind words! Yes, I believe I am "nice/trustful", but also a weirdo and lacking social skills. For most people being my friend is an unattractive idea. Instead of relaxed small talk about sports, I give cliquish lectures (the trademark of people with Asperger's) about obscure topics such as the inverse function approximation for the spatial hearing model ITD = r/c * (ɑ + sin ɑ) and just after 10 minutes you'll beg me to change the topic back to US politics. 

Peace! ✌🏽