USA Politics (redux)

[SimonNZ]

It took me about 30 seconds to conclude that this guy is an imbecile.

From the screenshot I was worried you were calling Mehdi Hasan an imbicile.

But it turns out it's good ol' Kyle. Order is restored.

"Your reason for being there is to be a hardliner, not to accept a watered down plan." Forever demanding the perfect be the enemy of the good. Compromise equals defeat.

[drogulus]

From the screenshot I was worried you were calling Mehdi Hasan an imbicile.

But it turns out it's good ol' Kyle. Order is restored.

"Your reason for being there is to be a hardliner, not to accept a watered down plan." Forever demanding the perfect be the enemy of the good. Compromise equals defeat.

     There's value in doing both IMO, playing the hardliner game to draw enemy fire while the good thing gets got by the moderate sellouts. It helps if the players know how to play their position.

[71 dB]

The problem is that the progressives don't have the leverage people who voted for them want them to have.

Whether or not they have that much leverage they could have some leverage if they chose to use it by refusing to vote for must pass bills unless their demands are met.

[SimonNZ]

     There's value in doing both IMO, playing the hardliner game to draw enemy fire while the good thing gets got by the moderate sellouts. It helps if the players know how to play their position.

But that doesn't seem to be the game they're playing.

And being able to move the needle to "good" with an eye to a later "better" means you have actual power or influence as a hardliner, sticking to demanding nothing less than an immediate "perfect" means you have a record of never achieving anything and are viewed as toothless or ridiculous (or both) and loose leverage.

Plus these hardliners give Fox etc all the material they need for firing up the right-wing base.

[71 dB]

But that doesn't seem to be the game they're playing.

And being able to move the needle to "good" with an eye to a later "better" means you have actual power or influence as a hardliner, sticking to demanding nothing less than an immediate "perfect" means you have a record of never achieving anything and are viewed as toothless or ridiculous (or both) and loose leverage.

Plus these hardliners give Fox etc all the material they need for firing up the right-wing base.

Fox News calls Biden a socialist. If they call you a socialist anyway, you can as well be one!

Medicare for all have been tried to do in the US for 100 years. When is the time? When is the time for $15 minimum wage? There hasn't been progressive politicies implemented in the US for decades. A lot of people think it is the time. It was the time decades ago! Dems have been incrementalists for decades. It is pandemic. People need relief. Now, not 50 years from now. Even Trump promised more relief than what Dems are giving and you feel (living in New Zealand!!) the left is demanding too much?? What the fuck! You know nothing and call people 1000 times more knowledgeable impeciless. I don't understand you.

[SimonNZ]

I'm not against what they want. I'm against how they go about getting it.

[drogulus]

Whether or not they have that much leverage they could have some leverage if they chose to use it by refusing to vote for must pass bills unless their demands are met.

     What bugs me about the criticism is that it assumes that the progressives have no insight on how to use the leverage they have. They must be wrong somehow, either wrong in misreading their influence or not really committed to their goals. One or another might be true, but I'm not going to assume on scant evidence that either is the case.

But that doesn't seem to be the game they're playing.

And being able to move the needle to "good" with an eye to a later "better" means you have actual power or influence as a hardliner, sticking to demanding nothing less than an immediate "perfect" means you have a record of never achieving anything and are viewed as toothless or ridiculous (or both) and loose leverage.

Plus these hardliners give Fox etc all the material they need for firing up the right-wing base.

     Yes, you have to live on the razor's edge. Drawing Fox fire away from Comrade Biden is a plus.

[drogulus]

     I think pressure for an even larger infrastructure bill is a good thing. Thank you, AOC.

[SimonNZ]

Sounds good to me. But that's not what Kyle is saying in that video. He's saying she should withdraw her support and be against any final "watered down" bill that doesn't meet her target. (mere "incrementalism", apparently)

[71 dB]

I'm not against what they want. I'm against how they go about getting it.

Well, explain to us imbeciles how they should go about getting it?

[SimonNZ]

Well, explain to us imbeciles how they should go about getting it?

I already told you: stop letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And it wasn't me who called Kyle an imbecile - though I'm happy to concur.

[71 dB]

I already told you: stop letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And it wasn't me who called Kyle an imbecile - though I'm happy to concur.

It is 5 am here and I really need to go and sleep, but there is no perfect nor good in US politics. What the left demands is "bare minimum" really.

[Herman]

It is not about anyone being an imbecile. It is about the progressives in the Congress not fighting enough and not knowing what they are doing. Politics is about having a strategy and using your leverage.

Provided you have that leverage.

In the USA progressives have very little leverage, and it's not much different in other parts of the 1st world, where neo-liberalism still reigns surpreme.

[Herman]

Corporations are taxed pretty much everywhere in the World.

Nations and states are competing with each other to get corporations to pick their location.

In order to persuade corporations they offer tax benefits, so much so that some corporations hardly pay any taxes, also because they tend to locate their HQ in tax havens.

So, by and large corporations don't pay the kind of taxes you and I do.

[71 dB]

Provided you have that leverage.

Sometimes you have if your votes are needed for example. 

In the USA progressives have very little leverage, and it's not much different in other parts of the 1st world, where neo-liberalism still reigns surpreme.

Yes, not much leverage. The more important to use it when you have it. I don't know any other 1st world country where neo-liberalism reigns as surpreme as in the US. The US is unique.

[71 dB]

Nations and states are competing with each other to get corporations to pick their location.

In order to persuade corporations they offer tax benefits, so much so that some corporations hardly pay any taxes, also because they tend to locate their HQ in tax havens.

So, by and large corporations don't pay the kind of taxes you and I do.

Usually very large corporations (e.g. Amazon) can avoid taxes. Smaller ones pay taxes. They lack leverage.

[Spotted Horses]

It is not about anyone being an imbecile. It is about the progressives in the Congress not fighting enough and not knowing what they are doing. Politics is about having a strategy and using your leverage. Others who don't agree with you won't give you anything unless you force them to give you something. The progressives haven't been using their leverage the way people who voted for them want them to use. The progressives have been a disappointment.

Kyle Kulinski is a know-nothing, do-nothing who sees fit to criticize people who made the enormous effort to run for office, get elected, and work hard to make an actual difference. He's pushing the same idiocy that "if it's not Bernie Sanders it's all the same." It is a rehash of an old line that has often led to disastrous consequences. I knew a similar idiot who used every breath to explain to everyone he knew that Ralph Nader was the messiah and if it made no difference if it's George Bush or Al Gore, if it is not Nader. Nader siphoned enough of the progressive vote from Gore to tip the scales to Bush, which gave us the Dick Cheney foreign policy, the tax cuts for ultra rich, and all the rest of it.

If you want to follow progressive politics you could follow someone like Robert Reich, who is a staunch progressive with degrees from Dartmouth, Oxford and Yale, who has been a Professor at Yale and Brandeis, was the Secretary of Labor, and now teaches at the University of California, Berkeley. He has an solid background in law and economics, and knows how government works from the inside. He has actual knowledge and understanding.

[Brahmsian]

If you want to follow progressive politics you could follow someone like Robert Reich, who is a staunch progressive with degrees from Dartmouth, Oxford and Yale, who has been a Professor at Yale and Brandeis, was the Secretary of Labor, and now teaches at the University of California, Berkeley. He has an solid background in law and economics, and knows how government works from the inside. He has actual knowledge and understanding.

One of the truly intelligent ones!

[Karl Henning]

One of the truly intelligent ones!

Right up there with Kyle, eh...?

[Brahmsian]

Right up there with Kyle, eh...?

I'm not familiar with him?