USA Politics (redux)

[71 dB]

I don't know if the lack of investigative journalism is the biggest problem. I think the issue is the lack of honest journalism. Masses don't even bother to read the fruits of investigative journalism, but they are easily mislead with dishonest misinformation.

Youtube as a media is perhaps too young to have Pulitzers winners. Maybe someone such as Jordan Chariton will win a prize like that someday?

[milk]

Even if there is arrogance (I see glimpses of it but am not so familiar with the discussions so probably don't see it all maybe?), there is also self-criticism and self-reflection, which I find entirely lacking in many people's posts in the Politics thread. Not sure why- either a  lack of self-awareness or just complete unwillingness to play defense (only willing to play offense), or maybe something else? It is interesting, though, to see the contrast in approaches.

And I took that, with the smiley emoji, as a joke while the "adults" took it without irony. Maybe I'm seeing self-depreciating irony where there isn't? I have to admit I'm rather lazy and don't pay full attention to what people are doing much of the time. Even when someone insults me, I'm willing to continue to engage politely with them. I have done it and I notice some particular others never do it. I'm willing to forgive too. I've been wrong before, so be it. Yes: I agree with you on this. Some people here aren't given very much to admitting other possibilities. This isn't about content; it's about style, attitude, perspective, and communication.     

[SimonNZ]

And I took that, with the smiley emoji, as a joke while the "adults" took it without irony.

We've seen it said multiple times without the emoji. We've seen it yelled in all caps and swearing and without the emoji We've seen him start threads the entire subject of which is demanding to know why we don't recognize that he has "the knowledge" and is hyper educated about American politics from watching a bunch of Kyle videos and why therefor we don't admit we should be deferring to him, brainwashed as we are. Multiple threads started just for that.

I can provide links if you really need them.

You mentioned how good he's been over the last year. I think you'll find that was "moderator-assisted".

[ritter]

We've seen it said multiple times without the emoji. We've seen it yelled in all caps and swearing and without the emoji We've seen him start threads the entire subject of which is demanding to know why we don't recognize that he has "the knowledge" and is hyper educated about American politics from watching a bunch of Kyle videos and why therefor we don't admit we should be deferring to him, brainwashed as we are. Multiple threads started just for that.

I can provide links if you really need them.

You mentioned how good he's been over the last year. I think you'll find that was "moderator-assisted".

I steer clear of this thread these days (I was never particularly active in it anyway), but now that "plus ones" seem to be in fashion, it's SimonNZ who gets my +1...

[71 dB]

He has "the knowledge" and is hyper educated about American politics from watching a bunch of Kyle videos...

Not hyper-educated, but super-educated.  This is clearly a joke from my part, because Kyle uses it and his direct self-confidence amuses me. In a way he is right, because most people follow news sources so bad someone like Kyle is in fact super-good in comparison. You forget that most people don't read well crafted articles by Pulitzer-winning people. Most people follow the likes of Tucker Carlson, people who are propagandists, not investigative journalists.

Maybe I don't know anything. I have used quite a lot of time in resent years following US poltics so I thought I knew something. Anyway, I don't follow US politics anymore as intensively as I did and I don't even care so much anymore. The US for me is just a rich third World country with third World country problems. If it wasn't for English language used in that country or some cultural achievements of epic proportion such as the movies of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, I wouldn't be that interested of the country to begin with. Even that legacy is now being destroyed by Disney's "wokeness" so that I have zero intrerest of Indiana Jones 5. Now even the UK is going downhill with Boris Johnson. What is it with these English speaking countries making them so crazy politically? At least Australia and New Zealand are still voices of sanity as far as I know. Keep it up down there!  0:)

[Fëanor]

Maybe I don't know anything. I have used quite a lot of time in resent years following US poltics so I thought I knew something. Anyway, I don't follow US politics anymore as intensively as I did and I don't even care so much anymore. The US for me is just a rich third World country with third World country problems. If it wasn't for English language used in that country or some cultural achievements of epic proportion such as the movies of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, I wouldn't be that interested of the country to begin with. Even that legacy is now being destroyed by Disney's "wokeness" so that I have zero intrerest of Indiana Jones 5. Now even the UK is going downhill with Boris Johnson. What is it with these English speaking countries making them so crazy politically? At least Australia and New Zealand are still voices of sanity as far as I know. Keep it up down there!  0:)

As I Canadian I have visited the USA many times over many decades on account of both business and pleasure.  I have followed US federal politics with a certain interest for a long time too.  And also look closely at the American system of government.  Things have gotten crazier than I would ever have though possible 'till recently.

I was gravely shock by the election of Donald Trump in '16 -- or maybe rather that he could be elected.  It undermined my great respect for Americans in general.  Worse, it undermined my respect for the human race, such as it was.

By now I'm not surprised by the rise of populism and would-be autocrat leaders.  We see democracy going down hill so many place, viz. Hungary, Turkey, Brazil, Philippines, etc.

[Jo498]

The demise or "wokization" of 1970s-2000s popular culture that was mostly trashy even at its peak some decades ago before the last drop of possible profit got milked out of these franchises is certainly the least of the problems the Western world is facing now or will have to face eventually. It is also something comparably easy to fix (if one thinks it needs fixing). Someone just needs to make different movies.
That's why we should be happy about classical music and literature. It's old but still with us, cannot be changed by replaced characters or whatever we don't like etc.
They can't take that away from you so easily.

Granting that Trump was more or less regularly elected and then voted out after 4 years, I'd actually take that as a good sign. The system is open enough both to admit an unusual candidate and then get rid of him again. I fear that many other decisions are not that open anymore, e.g. the stunningly totalitarian measures many countries have been taking "for health reasons" in the last almost two years. I am shocked and depressed more by this than by any other development I witnessed in the last 35 years, certainly more than by any Trump or Bolsonaro (admittedly, these two are very far away from where I live).

[Fëanor]

The demise or "wokization" of 1970s-2000s popular culture that was mostly trashy even at its peak some decades ago before the last drop of possible profit got milked out of these franchises is certainly the least of the problems the Western world is facing now or will have to face eventually. It is also something comparably easy to fix (if one thinks it needs fixing). Someone just needs to make different movies.
That's why we should be happy about classical music and literature. It's old but still with us, cannot be changed by replaced characters or whatever we don't like etc.
They can't take that away from you so easily.

Granting that Trump was more or less regularly elected and then voted out after 4 years, I'd actually take that as a good sign. The system is open enough both to admit an unusual candidate and then get rid of him again. I fear that many other decisions are not that open anymore, e.g. the stunningly totalitarian measures many countries have been taking "for health reasons" in the last almost two years. I am shocked and depressed more by this than by any other development I witnessed in the last 35 years, certainly more than by any Trump or Bolsonaro (admittedly, these two are very far away from where I live).

Long since I concluded that human beings are ignorant and/or irrational and/or stupid in varying degrees.  What I underestimated 'till recently is the ability of populist demagogues to exploit worst combinations of the attributes.

My Venn diagram works better than every ...

[Karl Henning]

I have to admit I'm rather lazy and don't pay full attention to what people are doing much of the time.

Obviously, nothing wrong with this, esp. on this thread.

[Karl Henning]

Not hyper-educated, but super-educated.  This is clearly a joke from my part, because Kyle uses it and his direct self-confidence amuses me. In a way he is right, because most people follow news sources so bad someone like Kyle is in fact super-good in comparison. You forget that most people don't read well crafted articles by Pulitzer-winning people. Most people follow the likes of Tucker Carlson, people who are propagandists, not investigative journalists.

It's been pointed out to you repeatedly that there is no virtue in your subscribing to Kyle, who no less than Tucker Carlson is a propagandist, not a journalist.

[Karl Henning]

The demise or "wokization" of 1970s-2000s popular culture that was mostly trashy even at its peak some decades ago before the last drop of possible profit got milked out of these franchises is certainly the least of the problems the Western world is facing now or will have to face eventually. It is also something comparably easy to fix (if one thinks it needs fixing). Someone just needs to make different movies.
That's why we should be happy about classical music and literature. It's old but still with us, cannot be changed by replaced characters or whatever we don't like etc.
They can't take that away from you so easily.

Granting that Trump was more or less regularly elected and then voted out after 4 years, I'd actually take that as a good sign. The system is open enough both to admit an unusual candidate and then get rid of him again. I fear that many other decisions are not that open anymore, e.g. the stunningly totalitarian measures many countries have been taking "for health reasons" in the last almost two years. I am shocked and depressed more by this than by any other development I witnessed in the last 35 years, certainly more than by any Trump or Bolsonaro (admittedly, these two are very far away from where I live).

Of course, notwithstanding the fact that Trump lost the election, we are far from done with him.

[SimonNZ]

e.g. the stunningly totalitarian measures many countries have been taking "for health reasons" in the last almost two years. I am shocked and depressed more by this than by any other development I witnessed in the last 35 years, certainly more than by any Trump or Bolsonaro (admittedly, these two are very far away from where I live).

Which totalitarian measures?

[Karl Henning]

Lev Parnas Is a Reminder—and Warning—of Trump's Sleazy Corruption

[Karl Henning]

Lev Parnas Is a Reminder—and Warning—of Trump's Sleazy Corruption

It should go without saying that it's bad for the American system of government if a sitting president can use his unparalleled national security, law enforcement, financial, and diplomatic power to strongarm his way into more time in office. Yet that's precisely what Donald Trump tried to do, and thus far there has been zero accountability for it. He was impeached, but Senate Republicans blocked his conviction. Far from distancing itself from him because of his Ukraine malversation, the GOP has stuck with Trump through the pandemic, through his attempt to steal the election, through the riot he incited at the Capitol, and through the first ten months of his conspiracy-theory-spreading ex-presidency.

[T. D.]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-jan-6-protest-organizers-003326225.html

As the House investigation into the Jan. 6 attack heats up, some of the planners of the pro-Trump rallies that took place in Washington, D.C., have begun communicating with congressional investigators and sharing new information about what happened when the former president's supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol. Two of these people have spoken to Rolling Stone extensively in recent weeks and detailed explosive allegations that multiple members of Congress were intimately involved in planning both Trump's efforts to overturn his election loss and the Jan. 6 events that turned violent.

Rolling Stone separately confirmed a third person involved in the main Jan. 6 rally in D.C. has communicated with the committee. This is the first report that the committee is hearing major new allegations from potential cooperating witnesses. While there have been prior indications that members of Congress were involved, this is also the first account detailing their purported role and its scope. The two sources also claim they interacted with members of Trump's team, including former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, who they describe as having had an opportunity to prevent the violence....

[71 dB]

As I Canadian I have visited the USA many times over many decades on account of both business and pleasure.

I have been to the US (Florida) only once in 1982 when I was 11 years old. At that time the country seemed a wonderland: Disneyworld, Space Center, Sea World, warm sunny weather, 16 TV channels (Finland had 3 TV channels at that time I think), Pacman everywhere and of course as much Reese's Peanut Butter Cups one can eat! 

I have followed US federal politics with a certain interest for a long time too.  And also look closely at the American system of government.  Things have gotten crazier than I would ever have though possible 'till recently.

I was gravely shock by the election of Donald Trump in '16 -- or maybe rather that he could be elected.  It undermined my great respect for Americans in general.  Worse, it undermined my respect for the human race, such as it was.

Trump's victory in 2016 was the starting point for my interest in the US politics. I was totally shocked by the result. I can still remember how I woke up in the morning and checked the news for election results expecting to see Hillary as the winner. Bang! WTF?? Trump won? What? My mother was also badly shocked by the result. In general Europeans had difficulty of understanding the result.

I had thought ONLY Republicans are bad and that Hillary would genuinely be a GOOD president. I even wrote that opinion on this forum in 2016 before the election. I didn't know about Bernie Sanders and I was surprised to see some member here even support him. I didn't know Hillary is corrupt and hated. I didn't know she doesn't really care about other people unless they donate money.  I learned all of this when I started to follow the US politics more closely and I found the "alternative" voices beyond the MSM.

In Finland the general idea of politics is to improve the country and the lives of voters from rich to poor. In the US politics is about the careers of the politicians and getting richer is the main goal. The lives of the bottom 99 % doesn't really matter, because they don't make large donations.

20 years ago I didn't watch the movies of Michael Moore. I thought the dude is out of his mind making sensational movies out of nothing. I should have taken him much more seriously and watch his movies. I thought his movies were about the excess obesity of American when he actually correctly criticized the brutal US healthcare system. Now that know better (or at least I think I know) I keep Michael Moore in very high esteem. He is one of the best voices of reason in the country imho.

By now I'm not surprised by the rise of populism and would-be autocrat leaders.  We see democracy going down hill so many place, viz. Hungary, Turkey, Brazil, Philippines, etc.

People are stupid and ignorant. We want these dictator wanna-bees in powers. We will loose our freedom and then we must fight for it again. That makes people wiser for 100-300 years and then this cycle will repeat itself. We are that stupid. Better enjoy our freedom while we can. If I am lucky I will be dead before Finland becomes a dictatorship. Finland has very strong democracy. Undoing it will takes decades, I hope... 

[71 dB]

It's been pointed out to you repeatedly that there is no virtue in your subscribing to Kyle, who no less than Tucker Carlson is a propagandist, not a journalist.

You are not wrong, but it is more nyanced than that. All propagandists are not the same. First of all Kyle admits being a propagandists and openly says his bias is on the left. It s clear from everyone what his propaganda is about. If you want all Americans to have access to healthcare you agree with him. If you think healthcare is a priviledge of the rich, you disagree with him, but either way is is very clear for everyone. Hosts on Fox News are not like that. They pretent of caring about their audience and are willing to mislead them.

Tucker Carlson creates doubt against Corona Vaccines with his rhetoric. Kyle Kulinski is encouraging his audience to take vaccines basing his opinions on studies done on vaccines, statistics and scientific knowledge. Which one of them do you think is more harmful propaganda? Propagandists are not the same. You can do propaganda for bad and good things. I am sorry Karl, but I feel Kyle Kulinski does propaganda for good things. I can't say the same for Tucker Carlson. In fact, I think Tucker Carlson is a very dangerous man.

[71 dB]

Which totalitarian measures?

I'm asking the same. Some people have funny ideas about totalitarian measures. Mask mandates and lockdowns in the middle of the worst pandemic in 100 years are totalitarian measures? Really? I call it common sense. Should we have let the pandemic run wild filling hospitals of patients causing the collapse of the healthcare system?

[Karl Henning]

You are not wrong, but it is more nuanced than that. All propagandists are not the same.

Fair enough.

[71 dB]

Fair enough.

Very good.  0:)