Author Topic: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #  (Read 596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline knight66

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9985
  • Location: Edinburgh
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2011, 11:07:24 PM »
I have only just window shopped here; but I assumed that Mozart and Gluck were pretty well established in our minds and libraries; but you are right, when I think about it Gluck only has a toe hold in my collection whereas Mozart opera, even though not numerous, take up yards of shelf space.

I will go have a rummage on the Net.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14823
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 11:15:37 PM »
I have only just window shopped here; but I assumed that Mozart and Gluck were pretty well established in our minds and libraries;

Yes, but I couldn't find a pun on Salieri or Paisiello...........

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2011, 12:28:07 PM »
Behold, here is the new thread on opera from the Classical period. 8)

May it prosper! :)

Q

Thanks Q for putting this together!  8)


Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 01:00:35 PM »
I have finally aquired some Gluck, and look forward to listening for the first time soon.  ;)

Like Knight66 said above, I have more shelf space devoted to Mozart, with years of study and listening to Mozart opera, yet, I decided it was time to branch out, and it's been a ravishing and educating journey so far  8)


Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 17999
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2011, 09:34:16 PM »
I was wondering if we would include Gluck! :)

We do.  8) Hence a repost:



Review on Musicweb

Newly acquired. One of the last of Gluck's "early" operatic work. (He was already 40, but had still over 30 years and many grand operas ahead of him :)). A small scale court opera - also called "serenata" or "festa teatrale" - in two acts. How to characterise it? Charming, with interesting and characterful music that easily keeps attention during the near 1,5 hours of duration. The performance is a delight - absolutely everything is right. Starring Maria Bayo who, as always, firmly projects the charcater of the role she sings. I am impressed by Argentinian soprano Veronica Cangemi, the other singers are very fine as well. Very idiomatic accompaniment by the Cappella Coloniensis under Christopher Mould - in the vein of Tafelmusik under Weil or Freiburger Barokorchester under Von der Goltz.

Of course, this is not a major work in the genre but still a very nice piece - much strengthened by a top notch performance. I think lovers of the baroque opera, or serenatas/oratorios alike, will find this quite enjoyable.

Q

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 03:24:18 AM »
I have finally aquired some Gluck, and look forward to listening for the first time soon.  ;)

Like Knight66 said above, I have more shelf space devoted to Mozart, with years of study and listening to Mozart opera, yet, I decided it was time to branch out, and it's been a ravishing and educating journey so far  8)

IMHO, it is far more difficult to appreciate Mozart's accomplishment if one does not know Gluck and his revolutionary changes and his influence on Mozart and others. Given that I appear to be going backwards through the era (started with Mozart, then Haydn) Gluck would be the next candidate for me to explore. And so it shall be, probably with the 2 Iphigenie... works. Any recording suggestions on those (PI preferred, of course)?   :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 06:08:08 AM »
It is interesting to work backwards from Mozart (and using him as a reference point) and going back into the history of classical opera, and high baroque opera. What I've found is that Mozart didn't write in a vacuum, and worked with the traditions of opera seria and opera buffa as much as his contemporaries did. You also hear why Mozart stays around :) BUT his forebears and contemporaries had the capacity to reach the sublime too!

My interest, personally, is not so much to compare musical strengths as much as exploring the classical period and it's world in all it's detail, warts and all.
 ;D


Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14823
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 06:18:24 AM »
IMHO, it is far more difficult to appreciate Mozart's accomplishment if one does not know Gluck and his revolutionary changes and his influence on Mozart and others. Given that I appear to be going backwards through the era (started with Mozart, then Haydn) Gluck would be the next candidate for me to explore. And so it shall be, probably with the 2 Iphigenie... works. Any recording suggestions on those (PI preferred, of course)?   :)

8)



If you can get the Aulide, this is also the way to go. And get the rest of the series that is still available:




« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 06:19:56 AM by The new erato »

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2011, 06:23:49 AM »
It is interesting to work backwards from Mozart (and using him as a reference point) and going back into the history of classical opera, and high baroque opera. What I've found is that Mozart didn't write in a vacuum, and worked with the traditions of opera seria and opera buffa as much as his contemporaries did. You also hear why Mozart stays around :) BUT his forebears and contemporaries had the capacity to reach the sublime too!

My interest, personally, is not so much to compare musical strengths as much as exploring the classical period and it's world in all it's detail, warts and all.
 ;D

And so it should be, IMO. You can probably tell that I am an opera know-nothing, mostly because it has taken me several years to get over my aversion to sopranos. But I am doing better now, and as you say, exploring to recreate context is highly worthwhile. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2011, 06:24:57 AM »



If you can get the Aulide, this is also the way to go. And get the rest of the series that is still available:





Great, thanks, Erato! That's just the sort I'm looking for, I really admire Minkowski's efforts, and those particular works are ones that I have heard (well) of. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2011, 08:25:01 AM »


This morning I have returned to Mozart's Don Giovanni, in a recording that is new to me. I have to say I rather like this version so far. I'm still in Act 1, and having a great time with the sound of the orchestra, the tempos (on the fast side) and a fantastic Donna Elvira sung by Christina Hogman!

« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:35:59 AM by Leo K »

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2011, 08:29:40 AM »
By the way, like Gurn has mentioned, the sound of rough and small ensemble playing is ideal for me for 18th century music. It just sounds right to me too  ;D

The above Don Giovanni is played like that, especially the natural and imperfect singing, a quality I JUST LOVE.

 8)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:31:13 AM by Leo K »

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2011, 08:20:22 AM »
My classical era opera odyssey continues with Vincente Martin y Soler (May 2, 1754 – January 30, 1806). I've had this recording for quite awhile and finally listened to it yesterday:


(Unfortunately this recording is out of print)

Besides the fun of hearing the famous quote from this work in Mozart's Don Giovanni in context, the music was what I hoped it would be...full of charm, lightness, beautiful melodies and wonderful instrumentation...taking me back to 1786 like a time machine!

Quoth the Wiki:

Quote
Una cosa rara, ossia Bellezza ed onestà (A Rare Thing, or Beauty and Honesty) is an opera by the composer Vicente Martín y Soler. It takes the form of a dramma giocoso in two acts. The libretto, by Lorenzo da Ponte, is based on the play La luna de la sierra by Luis Vélez de Guevara. The opera was first performed at the Burgtheater, Vienna on 17 November 1786. It was a huge success. Mozart quotes the music to the ensemble O quanto in sì bel giubilo towards the end of Don Giovanni.



Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2011, 09:08:32 AM »
My classical era opera odyssey continues with Vincente Martin y Soler (May 2, 1754 – January 30, 1806). I've had this recording for quite awhile and finally listened to it yesterday:


(Unfortunately this recording is out of print)

Besides the fun of hearing the famous quote from this work in Mozart's Don Giovanni in context, the music was what I hoped it would be...full of charm, lightness, beautiful melodies and wonderful instrumentation...taking me back to 1786 like a time machine!

Quoth the Wiki:



Leo,
Boy, you've hit on one that I would really like to have! For so many reasons. Not least because I have always thought that it must be very good indeed! OOP, of course... :'(  Well, there has to be an alternative, we'll see what's what. Thanks for reminding me of this. And that little scena n DG is one of my favorite parts, too. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Drasko

  • Guest
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2011, 02:33:22 AM »
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 02:45:38 AM by Drasko »

Offline Leo K.

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1475
  • Author of 'False Barnyard'
    • Conceptual Music
  • Currently Listening to:
    Sibelius, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bach
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2011, 08:25:10 AM »
(also posted in Gurns Classical Corner)

By the way, let me quickly praise these two recordings of Mozart's amazing La Clemenza di Tito! I've been getting rather obsessed with the special sound Mozart executed for this opera. Mozart's late style scoring has such a beautiful, simple, and fragile quality! Why I haven't quite noticed the orchestral tonality of this opera before is beyond me, but these two releases make see the light!




Wow!  :o

Of these two I slightly prefer the Mackerras, but man, these are really fantastic!

« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 08:53:38 AM by Leo K »

Offline JoshLilly

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 402
  • Joachim Raff, the greatest!
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2011, 02:44:50 PM »
Sometimes, I wish I could make an excerpts CD of parts from various Grétry operas and give it to people.  For example, the finale to Act 1 of La caravane du Caire, or the very interesting opening to Richard Coeur-de-lion... it starts out extremely dark and heavy, but then blurs into a pastoral, cheerful choral scene.  There's no standalone overture to that one, it's really a little jarring and strange, but it's really fantastic.

I also sometimes wish that no CD of Dittersdorf's symphonies had ever come out, since it gets people to avoid his operas (and chamber music, as well).  I like a few of his symphonies okay, but despite the large number of them, I think it was in his operas and chamber music that he shined.  Apparently, Joseph Haydn was a bit fan of his Il Barone di Rocca Antica, and I like it quite a bit myself... I not only have it on CD, but in a DVD as well.  I hesitate to recommend the DVD, since the choreography is utterly embarrassing as far as I'm concerned.  However, other than that, the performance is really, really good (it's almost worth the price alone just to see those period instruments in action before the stage).  There are several really star parts here, including the finales to both acts, which show a great skill for combining complexity and subtlety that would probably surprise the many Dittersdorf-bashers out there.

By the way, I also have that recording of Martín y Soler's Una cosa rara.  As a whole package, this is one of my absolute favourite operas.  I have to admit when I bought it, it was blind and mostly due to the references in Wolfgang Mozart's Don Giovanni.  Boy, what a lucky stab in the dark this was!  I've got it back out now, I almost forgot how amazing it was from start to finish.  In my opinion, I'm thinking Mozart might have had a hard time picking which music to borrow for his own opera, since there's a seriously large amount of very catch material here.

I wonder how many complete operas I have from the Classical Era.  I'm just looking through my collection, and geez.  I have 11 complete operas by Cimarosa alone (not to mention 3 separate recordings of Il matrimonio segreto, and 13 complete operas by Paisiello, and more (such as 3 complete operas by the relatively obscure Piccini).  I used to have a serious interest in Classical period Italian opera, and seeing this discussion has suddenly revived a bit of an itch in me.  I know what I'll probably be listening to a lot of the next few weeks!

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 03:17:57 AM »
I am looking for a nice CD performance of "Il Barbiere di Siviglia" by Paisiello (not Rossini!). PI would be preferable but not as important as performance. What say you all, you Classical Operators?  :)  Is Fasano from 1959 really my only choice?

8)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 03:20:45 AM by Gurnatron5500 »
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline JoshLilly

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 402
  • Joachim Raff, the greatest!
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 05:54:26 AM »
I am looking for a nice CD performance of "Il Barbiere di Siviglia" by Paisiello (not Rossini!). PI would be preferable but not as important as performance. What say you all, you Classical Operators?  :)  Is Fasano from 1959 really my only choice?

I have this version here, and it's amazing:

http://www.amazon.com/Paisiello-barbiere-Siviglia-Christian-Tschelebiew/dp/B000005IEJ

This is one of my all-time favourite operas.

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31986
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: # Opera from the Galant & Classical Era #
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 06:09:27 AM »
I have this version here, and it's amazing:

http://www.amazon.com/Paisiello-barbiere-Siviglia-Christian-Tschelebiew/dp/B000005IEJ

This is one of my all-time favourite operas.

Excellent, thanks, Josh! Should have it in hand very soon. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106