Shakespeare

Started by Karl Henning, July 16, 2014, 05:15:08 AM

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ando


Henry V (1989, Kenneth Branagh)
This version of the one of the Bard's most famous history plays which borrowed a bit from Orson Welles, German Expressionism, Franco Zeffirelli and Platoon amd made even pursits forget the (until then) reference Olivier version for a spell. Not sure how long it's streaming free on tubi but I'm watching it tonight. Below are a few clips concerning Branagh, Henry VI and his career.




JBS

Quote from: ando on February 29, 2024, 04:47:53 PM
Henry V (1989, Kenneth Branagh)
This version of the one of the Bard's most famous history plays which borrowed a bit from Orson Welles, German Expressionism, Franco Zeffirelli and Platoon amd made even pursits forget the (until then) reference Olivier version for a spell. Not sure how long it's streaming free on tubi but I'm watching it tonight. Below are a few clips concerning Branagh, Henry VI and his career.





My memory of that film includes an overloud soundtrack that drowned out the actors at several points, including the Crispin's Day speech.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

ando

Quote from: JBS on March 01, 2024, 04:59:29 AMMy memory of that film includes an overloud soundtrack that drowned out the actors at several points, including the Crispin's Day speech.
Good to hear!  8)

SimonNZ

#383


Watched last night: Ian Holm's King Lear

I had high hopes for this, and at the start it looked like it was going to be brilliant. Clever use of sparse sets and a perfect cast including Victoria Hamilton as perhaps the best Cordelia I've seen. But it all falls apart once they get "outdoors". Thay are undecided or indifferent to the question of how much this is a fit of entitles pique and how much actual madness, and Holm himself seems to want to be solidly in the former. But the real killer is that the Fool, a huge part on the page, is even more brutally cut than usual - perhaps as little as 10% remaining, just the odd rejoinders to the point where he could have been left out entirely. Pity.

edit: and another curiosity: they've chosen to cut everything any character says to themselves or to the audience. I had to go back and rewatch a couple of scenes to see if it really was total, and yes, there's not even "What shall Cordelia speak? Love and be silent".



ando

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 08, 2024, 11:45:12 AM

Watched last night: Ian Holm's King Lear

I had high hopes for this, and at the start it looked like it was going to be brilliant. Clever use of sparse sets and a perfect cast including Victoria Hamilton as perhaps the best Cordelia I've seen. But it all falls apart once they get "outdoors". Thay are undecided or indifferent to the question of how much this is a fit of entitles pique and how much actual madness, and Holm himself seems to want to be solidly in the former. But the real killer is that the Fool, a huge part on the page, is even more brutally cut than usual - perhaps as little as 10% remaining, just the odd rejoinders to the point where he could have been left out entirely. Pity.

edit: and another curiosity: they've chosen to cut everything any character says to themselves or to the audience. I had to go back and rewatch a couple of scenes to see if it really was total, and yes, there's not even "What shall Cordelia speak? Love and be silent".

A board room Lear, eh? I see it's on Prime Video. I'll give it a go out of curiosity. Thanks for the review.

Karl Henning

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 08, 2024, 11:45:12 AM

Watched last night: Ian Holm's King Lear

I had high hopes for this, and at the start it looked like it was going to be brilliant. Clever use of sparse sets and a perfect cast including Victoria Hamilton as perhaps the best Cordelia I've seen. But it all falls apart once they get "outdoors". Thay are undecided or indifferent to the question of how much this is a fit of entitles pique and how much actual madness, and Holm himself seems to want to be solidly in the former. But the real killer is that the Fool, a huge part on the page, is even more brutally cut than usual - perhaps as little as 10% remaining, just the odd rejoinders to the point where he could have been left out entirely. Pity.

edit: and another curiosity: they've chosen to cut everything any character says to themselves or to the audience. I had to go back and rewatch a couple of scenes to see if it really was total, and yes, there's not even "What shall Cordelia speak? Love and be silent".



Sorry that this should disappoint.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

SimonNZ

#386
Quote from: Karl Henning on March 10, 2024, 03:40:10 PMSorry that this should disappoint.

It has plenty to recommend it. And the critics generally like it.

I'm disappointed by the need for cutting generally, and the older I get and the more familiar with the plays the more sensitive I am to what's missing and often how important it is. But that's a personal and highly subjective thing.

It might be a bit much to ask, but I wish they'd film the full text, release a cut version theatrically, then give a menu page option on dvd etc for which version you'd like.

Have you seen that version?


edit: I should probably add that I do know that some of the play texts as we now have them might have been more of an ur-text in Shakespears day, from which he tailored according to which actors were available, or to whom the play was being performed. Even so, cutting The Fool's role by 90% seems extreme.

Karl Henning

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 10, 2024, 04:14:55 PMIt has plenty to recommend it. And the critics generally like it.

I'm disappointed by the need for cutting generally, and the older I get and the more familiar with the plays the more sensitive I am to what's missing and often how important it is. But that's a personal and highly subjective thing.

It might be a bit much to ask, but I wish they'd film the full text, release a cut version theatrically, then give a menu page option on dvd etc for which version you'd like.

Have you seen that version?


edit: I should probably add that I do know that some of the play texts as we now have them might have been more of an ur-text in Shakespears day, from which he tailored according to which actors were available, or to whom the play was being performed. Even so, cutting The Fool's role by 90% seems extreme.
No, the only English-language Lear I've seen was Paul Scofield, and long enough ago that I scarce remember it.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

ando

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 10, 2024, 04:14:55 PMIt has plenty to recommend it. And the I should probably add that I do know that some of the play texts as we now have them might have been more of an ur-text in Shakespears day, from which he tailored according to which actors were available, or to whom the play was being performed. Even so, cutting The Fool's role by 90% seems extreme.
Of course it is. He's something like the conscience of Lear and, if performed well, his humorous counterpart. This Holm version is sorely lacking in that department. I mean, where's the infamous Bard wit in all the grim seriousness? Tragedy can become a mere horror show without that element of the absurdist perspective which clowns often bring to the proceedings.

Bet if we had a Will Kemp performance on video tape that part would never be cut!


SimonNZ

#389
Quote from: ando on March 11, 2024, 11:26:51 AMOf course it is. He's something like the conscience of Lear and, if performed well, his humorous counterpart. This Holm version is sorely lacking in that department. I mean, where's the infamous Bard wit in all the grim seriousness? Tragedy can become a mere horror show without that element of the absurdist perspective which clowns often bring to the proceedings.

Bet if we had a Will Kemp performance on video tape that part would never be cut!


Looks like Kemp left in 1600 and in Lear it would have been written for the more subtle Robert Armin. (its possible I've read that before now, but if so I'd long forgotten it)


I might have said it here before, but an intriguing idea I've read is that in Shakespeare's small company we can usually tell which roles were doubled by which characters never share the stage, and one such doubling could be The Fool and Cordelia.

I'd love to see a performance where Lear was being mocked and having his conscience pricked by a photo-negative vision or suggestion of his rejected daughter.

JBS

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 11, 2024, 12:55:10 PMLooks like Kemp left in 1600 and in Lear it would have been written for the more subtle Robert Armin. (its possible I've read that before now, but if so I'd long forgotten it)


I might have said it here before, but an intriguing idea I've read is that in Shakespeare's small company we can usually tell which roles were doubled by which characters never share the stage, and one such doubling could be The Fool and Cordelia.

I'd love to see a performance where Lear was being mocked and having his conscience pricked by a photo-negative vision or suggestion of his rejected daughter.

That would be an interesting idea. There's a hint of it in Lear's last words, in which he refers to Cordelia as "my poor fool".

And my poor fool is hanged. No, no, no life?
Why should a dog, a horse, a rat have life,
And thou no breath at all? Thou 'lt come no more,
Never, never, never, never, never.—
Pray you undo this button. Thank you, sir.
Do you see this? Look on her, look, her lips,
Look there, look there!


But against it is the practice of using prepubescent boys in female roles--would they have cast a boy as the Fool?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

SimonNZ

#391
Quote from: JBS on March 11, 2024, 07:00:13 PMThat would be an interesting idea. There's a hint of it in Lear's last words, in which he refers to Cordelia as "my poor fool".

And my poor fool is hanged. No, no, no life?
Why should a dog, a horse, a rat have life,
And thou no breath at all? Thou 'lt come no more,
Never, never, never, never, never.—
Pray you undo this button. Thank you, sir.
Do you see this? Look on her, look, her lips,
Look there, look there!


But against it is the practice of using prepubescent boys in female roles--would they have cast a boy as the Fool?

Interesting. I feel like I haven't seen the line performed that way, but then perhaps I just wasn't picking up on the ambiguity.

The performance of that line I most clearly remember would be in Simon Russell Beale's Lear which he deliberately played as the progression of Lewy Body Dementia. Earlier we had seen him in a confused and paranoid state bludgeon the Fool to death. When we get to that line it's played as:

"And my poor fool is...
(remembers then pushes the memory back)
...hanged"

(poco) Sforzando

The Cordelia/Fool doubling is frequently theorized, though there is no proof. But it makes sense, and women's parts in Shakesepare may not have been invariably played by young men or boys. Armin may have had a very youthful appearance that supports the doublng.

Doublings in Shakespeare have been well studied, most recently and convincingly (to my mind) in Brett Gamboa's "Shakespeare's Double Plays." But bludgeoning the Fool to death? Totally unconvincing and out of character for Lear. Why not leave the Fool's disappearance as an element of the play that is simply not explained?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

ando

Quote from: SimonNZ on March 11, 2024, 12:55:10 PMLooks like Kemp left in 1600 and in Lear it would have been written for the more subtle Robert Armin. (its possible I've read that before now, but if so I'd long forgotten it)
Good point, though there nothing subtle about Thersites from Troilus & Cressida, written around 1602 (probably my favorite wit next to the nurse in R&J).

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: ando on March 12, 2024, 03:15:29 PMGood point, though there nothing subtle about Thersites from Troilus & Cressida, written around 1602 (probably my favorite wit next to the nurse in R&J).

It is uncertain, however, if Troilus was actually produced in Shakespeare's time. But Armin could have had a wide enough range to encompass both Thersites and Lear's fool. Following Lear, however, I don't notice many parts for a clown that would have really shown off Armin to great advantage. (The clown who brings the asp to Cleopatra is just a bit part, for example. Perhaps Armin played Autolycus in Winter's Tale, or Cloten in Cymbeline? We'll never know these things.)
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

ando

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 12, 2024, 07:44:32 PMIt is uncertain, however, if Troilus was actually produced in Shakespeare's time. But Armin could have had a wide enough range to encompass both Thersites and Lear's fool. Following Lear, however, I don't notice many parts for a clown that would have really shown off Armin to great advantage. (The clown who brings the asp to Cleopatra is just a bit part, for example. Perhaps Armin played Autolycus in Winter's Tale, or Cloten in Cymbeline? We'll never know these things.)
Nothing is certain. Isn't that the point of the fool? Once he's (or Cordelia, take your pick) hanged the play really is over. Many people say Lear is about old age, homelessness, insanity... the inevitable physical disintegration of the human being. But the biggest tragedy is, of course, the consequences of Lear's delusions; not only his but many of the characters in the play. It's perversely amusing that The Fool's biggest objectors are the one's who get it in the neck.

SimonNZ

Finished Judi Dench's book "Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays The Rent". Actually a collection of interviews on the very many roles she's played, more theatre gossip and autobiography than lit crit, but still very thoughtful and articulate about all the plays as one might expect. Often funny. Easily recommended.