Author Topic: About older BIS discs  (Read 1031 times)

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Offline Maestro267

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About older BIS discs
« on: February 03, 2021, 03:30:45 AM »
Why do older BIS recordings have such long gaps of silence in them? Usually it happens at the end of discs, or between individual works, although I'm listening to MacMillan's clarinet concerto Ninian, and there's like 30 seconds of silence between the first and second movements.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 03:37:53 AM »
Why do older BIS recordings have such long gaps of silence in them? Usually it happens at the end of discs, or between individual works, although I'm listening to MacMillan's clarinet concerto Ninian, and there's like 30 seconds of silence between the first and second movements.

Yes, BIS discs have crazy long silence in the end of the discs, but that doesn't bother me at all.
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Offline "Harry"

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 03:37:58 AM »
Why do older BIS recordings have such long gaps of silence in them? Usually it happens at the end of discs, or between individual works, although I'm listening to MacMillan's clarinet concerto Ninian, and there's like 30 seconds of silence between the first and second movements.


I asked Robert von Bahr about this many years ago, and he said, the long pauses are meant to get some relax time before the next movement kicks in, and at the end of a CD the aural image fades slowly away, also a choice they made at BIS.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 03:40:21 AM »

I asked Robert von Bahr about this many years ago, and he said, the long pauses are meant to get some relax time before the next movement kicks in, and at the end of a CD the aural image fades slowly away, also a choice they made at BIS.

I thought it was something like this. Cool that you asked the man himself about it Harry.  ;)
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Offline Maestro267

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 03:40:36 AM »
Of course it doesn't bother me that much. If it's the end of the work or the disc I'll just stop it myself when I'm ready to stop it. But when it came between two movements of the same work, I did have to check to make sure it was still playing.

Offline Brian

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2021, 07:29:06 AM »
If it came between movements it may be a one off mistake? Or something the composer requested possibly? I remember seeing some premiere where the composer asked for no applause for 30 seconds after the ending, to make the audience feel the silence, so the conductor had to keep his arms up and ready as if the piece was not over, to prevent clapping...

BIS still now has like 20 seconds after the last track and 10 seconds between major works.

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2021, 07:45:27 AM »
Having not too many BIS discs, I never realized this feature. I also read that some 1980s? BIS CDs need a special equalization that was present in older players but might not be recognized by more recent ones or when playing the disc on a computer (or might require some fiddling?) I don't remember that I encountered such problems either
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2021, 08:13:57 AM »
Its difficult to generalize. I think there are places, where a somewhat longer pause is artistically justified, e.g. between the sarabande and the gavotte of Bach's fifth cello suite.
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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 12:04:01 PM »
Indeed, it has been a very common feature of earlier BIS discs, but especially at the end of the music, before the disc would stop. I don't recall it as regards any other labels, though isolated examples might exist.


Offline Mirror Image

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2021, 12:33:49 PM »
ECM Records were known for this but only at the beginning of the recording. BIS seems to do this at the end of a work and not between movements. I’ve never known them to do this between movements of pieces.
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Offline Brian

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2021, 01:00:05 PM »
RCA had a remastered version of the Martinon Nielsen 4 with a pause before the finale on a single disc late 90s reissue. For the Martinon Chicago box set, they removed the pause.

Offline Daverz

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Re: About older BIS discs
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2021, 01:53:05 PM »
Having not too many BIS discs, I never realized this feature. I also read that some 1980s? BIS CDs need a special equalization that was present in older players but might not be recognized by more recent ones or when playing the disc on a computer (or might require some fiddling?) I don't remember that I encountered such problems either

Yes, the EQ is called pre-emphasis. 

https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Pre-emphasis

Most Bis CDs up to about number 3XX had it.  Supraphon also used it a lot.
 
And some recent CD players don't undo it, even though it's part of the Redbook spec.