James Levine, R.I.P.

[Mirror Image]

I just want to bring these two comments together, as surprising a pairing as they are. They both hint at a very interesting line of discussion which Levine inspires, a line of discussion more interesting than John might have expected, maybe.

Conductor is a job which requires bossing around 100 people every day. Conductors by definition have to impose their ideas and demands on other people. This creates an easy opportunity for sociopaths, perverts, criminals, etc. It's a job that naturally attracts jerks, much like president of the USA. (This doesn't mean all conductors are awful - Martyn Brabbins is famously nice, people seem to have pretty good memories of Kubelik, and there's a video of the Danish National Symphony weeping tears of joy when they find out Fabio Luisi will be their new boss. Jimmy Carter was a very nice, kind man who somehow became president. It's always possible!)

And the sad truth is that a lot of the best conductors are also the biggest jerks. Szell basically was a terrorist, like the teacher in the movie Whiplash. Some conductors were very literal Nazis. And then there was James Levine, who bullied young music students into a creepy awful sex cult and has to be considered one of the worst humans ever to lead an orchestra.

The question is: how do we foster great conductors without fostering big stinky jerks? Do music schools need to adopt a model like law schools, where everyone has to take an ethics class and supply character witnesses? I think the better answer is that orchestras need to adopt a "no jerks" policy for guest performers and conductors and simply freeze future Levines out of the market. Similar to the way the TV director Mike Schur has a "no assholes" policy for actors on his shows.

Levine had great artistry and even genius. There's no doubting that when you hear his work. A lot of conductors these days...well a lot of them don't. But we have to make a world where there's more great artistry, and fewer creepy teenage sex cults. And we have to find a way to align those goals on the same path.

What you fail to address and that is people are flawed, Brian. Everyone has problems. People in authority are just as guilty as anyone else. There will always be asshole musicians and ones with egos the size of Jupiter. You simply can't expect everyone to take some kind of a 'test' in order conduct an orchestra. That wouldn't work as anyone could fake their way through it. I would like to think that Levine got his job because he was a great musician. The problem isn't with the conductor, it's with the orchestras, musicians, board members, etc. that allow this kind of behavior to happen for so long. Look at how long Levine has been doing these vile, repulsive things and NO ONE had stepped forward until much later in his career. He should've been ousted from that position years ago. I recall that the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra prior to the appointment of Robert Spano (who is far from a good conductor, IMHO, but that's a different tale) had to deal with the tirades of Yoel Levi who, from what I have read, was a tyrant on the podium, but what he did for the orchestra was take what Robert Shaw did and escalate it even further and Levi turned this orchestra into a world-class ensemble. It took them many years to get rid of him, though, but his achievements were far greater than any of the pressures he put on the orchestra musicians. I guess I'll end this post by saying that, yes, I agree with you that Levine is a horrible human being, but the guilty ones are all of the musicians and people even higher than him within those organizations that allowed him to do as he pleased. You can't keep someone from being a giant douchebag, but you certainly don't have to renew their contract or just fire them and be done with it.

[Brian]

It's funny, at first because of your tone I thought you were disagreeing with me, but actually my conclusion was "don't hire terrible people to take positions where they hold power over other people," and your post, for all its disagreement, says exactly the same thing.

So...I agree?

[Mirror Image]

It's funny, at first because of your tone I thought you were disagreeing with me, but actually my conclusion was "don't hire terrible people to take positions where they hold power over other people," and your post, for all its disagreement, says exactly the same thing.

So...I agree?

What I initially disagree with you about and everyone else here is that there's no need for this kind of commentary from you or anyone else:

Good riddance to an awful human...

Have you no respect for the dead? The guy just passed away and you're already jumping on the 'f*** Levine' bandwagon. As I said, I don't condone his actions, but there's no need for you to have this kind of attitude.

[The new erato]

There's no need to have any particular respect for him either. The best action is actually to let the whole thing pass without comment in any direction.

His music is here. The man is not. I'm OK with that.

[vandermolen]

Oh, agreed.

Bottom line my point is this:

1) Wagner wrote nasty things about Jews, yet he was personally not guilty of any nasty things directed against Jews. He was simply envious of Mendelssohn and Meyerbeer and obsessed with his own self-appointed mission. Not the most likeable person in the history of the Western Music, but hardly the worst either. Period.

2) Levine was a paedophile, ie one of the most despicable criminals ever. Period.

I agree Andrei. I was interested to read that Franz Schmidt joined the Nazi Party but never said anything anti-Semitic! Sometimes these things are more complicated!

[vandermolen]

Let me recommend the Symphony 1961 of Robert Di Domenica,as conducted by Levine with the Munich Philharmonic:



https://www.youtube.com/v/pKEZkS5AeVM

Interesting Leo! Love the Hopper painting.

[Jo498]

There is obviously a connection between the traits useful for gaining and keeping powerful positions, being often objectively very competent in such positions and abusing the power that comes with them. I don't think there is an easy way out of this dilemma although Levine seems to be one of too many cases where rather obvious checks, controls, red lights failed and measures were not taken but should have been. (The article further above mentions a few other factors particular to that case, I think one could probably also mention that the 1970s zeitgeist in the wake of the sexual revolution was different; metoo is at least to some extent a backlash because to put it, briefly and too simply, liberation obviously also benefitted libertines and probably bred a few of them. For people only hearing rumors it was not at all clear if there was merely a proclivity for young men that was kept somewhat under the rug not to shock conservatives or if actual abuse of minors or children was involved, as being unclear is the nature of rumors.
There seems to be an even worse connection (although JL probably was not one of them) of apparently extremely nice and charismatic people gaining positions of power and abusing them in similar ways; a few years ago a famous (leftist reform) boarding school in Germany was closed after it had turned out that it had been a hotbed of paedophilic abuse for decades, all led by a charismatic headmaster (who had been dead for a few years when the worst of the scandal became public).

[Florestan]

the guilty ones are all of the musicians and people even higher than him within those organizations that allowed him to do as he pleased.

Yes, absolutely.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Have you no respect for the dead? The guy just passed away and you're already jumping on the 'f*** Levine' bandwagon. As I said, I don't condone his actions, but there's no need for you to have this kind of attitude.

I thought Brian's comment (which you should quote in full: "Good riddance to an awful human, and it's sad to lose a great artist") was a pithy summing up of the Levine paradox. Lots of good/great artists are human train wrecks, but Levine really stood out in this respect. I don't read it as merely "f*** Levine."

[Mirror Image]

I thought Brian's comment (which you should quote in full: "Good riddance to an awful human, and it's sad to lose a great artist") was a pithy summing up of the Levine paradox. Lots of good/great artists are human train wrecks, but Levine really stood out in this respect. I don't read it as merely "f*** Levine."

Ah, but the key part of Brian's comment that didn't jive well with me is "Good riddance..." I'm sorry, but the man is dead now and there's no reason any of us should resort to mudslinging just because the opportunity presents itself. This will be my last comment in this thread.

[flyingdutchman]

Well, from all indications, Charles Dutoit and Daniele Gatti are both similarly horrible people for different reasons from Levine.  Still, love Dutoit's Holst Planets and other pieces.

[Rinaldo]

The Boston Globe chimes in:

The saying goes that one shouldn't speak ill of the dead. If that is true, I should say nothing about the late James Levine — and there are probably many who think I should do just that. But in the case of the Metropolitan Opera and Boston Symphony Orchestra's defrocked former high priest, I believe speaking ill of the dead is not just justified, but necessary.

The era of genius worship must end with James Levine

[Florestan]

The Boston Globe chimes in:

The era of genius worship must end with James Levine

Very good article.

This one, too:

https://van-us.atavist.com/silence-breaking

[vandermolen]

Very good article.

This one, too:

https://van-us.atavist.com/silence-breaking

I read the Boston Globe article which is, indeed, very good.

[bhodges]

A friend just pointed me to this one, from conductor Kenneth Woods, and it's well worth a read, too.

https://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2021/03/18/james-levine/

--Bruce

[Florestan]

I read the Boston Globe article which is, indeed, very good.

From both articles I particularly liked the idea that the cult of conductors should end once and for all and the contribution of the orchestra members should finally be acknowledged and commended for what it is: a major achievement on a par with the conductor's and maybe even greater because without their professionalism, dedication and patience (sometimes bordering on masochism) the greatest conductor could do nothing.

[Karl Henning]

The Boston Globe chimes in:

The era of genius worship must end with James Levine

Excellent.  It is indeed an issue which must not be "memory-holed."

This conductor takes no prisoners, either.

[Florestan]

A friend just pointed me to this one, from conductor Kenneth Woods, and it's well worth a read, too.

https://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2021/03/18/james-levine/

--Bruce

James Levine was not a great man with a single tragic flaw.

He was an almost completely horrible person, with a single, tragic talent.

Sad but true.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

From both articles I particularly liked the idea that the cult of conductors should end once and for all and the contribution of the orchestra members should finally be acknowledged and commended for what it is: a major achievement on a par with the conductor's and maybe even greater because without their professionalism, dedication and patience (sometimes bordering on masochism) the greatest conductor could do nothing.

It occurs to me that I can think of many instrumental virtuosi who became conductors. But I can think of no conductors who became instrumental virtuosi. As somebody once said, "No wrong notes come out of the baton."

[André]

A friend just pointed me to this one, from conductor Kenneth Woods, and it's well worth a read, too.

https://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2021/03/18/james-levine/

--Bruce

Wow ! That's quite the most damning article about Levine I've read - an probably all true, sadly. I must say that Kenneth Woods' assessment of Levine's Met performances does not surprise me: I have always found them uniformly subpar (I'm not referring to the singers of course). His Wagner in particular is a snooze fest.

In this 'me too' era I'm surprised he's never been accused of wrongdoing. Does money really buy anything ? Are the rich and powerful shielded from all consequences of their acts ? Disgusting.