Teacher & Pupil(s)

[Papy Oli]

I had thought about such a thread subject a while back and reading the d'Indy thread earlier today reminded me of it.

Would you care to post composers who taught others composers ?

This might be of interest to listeners who are in the early/middle stages but also to seasoned listeners who may not be aware of a potential teaching connection. Any such link between French composers would definitely be of interest to me at present but you can cover as wide an area, period, genre as you fancy.

Two I read today:

d'Indy >> Magnard
d'Indy >> Roussel      


PS: oh... and the first one who will dare to make a silly comment in terms of "greatness" between the 2 names because I have used the >> symbol will be subjected to a virtual but meaningful wallop in the proverbials  )

[Florestan]

Probably the most famous case is that of Robert Fuchs. His list of pupils includes, but is not limited to, Enescu, Korngold, Mahler, Sibelius, Hugo Wolf, Zemlinsky.

[DavidW]

JC Bach and Mozart comes to mind.

[Brian]

Nadia Boulanger studied with Vierne and Fauré, and then taught Quincy Jones, Astor Piazzolla, Grazyna Bacewicz, Carter, Copland, Glass, and Milhaud.

Which means Elliott Carter and the guy who wrote the Austin Powers theme song share a teacher!

Quincy on Nadia: https://youtu.be/DrnywDs1BMw

[Papy Oli]

Perfect, all. Keep'em coming 

[Maestro267]

Charles Villiers Stanford taught a generation of 20th-century British composers, including Bliss, Bridge, Dyson, Holst, Howells, Ireland, Moeran and Vaughan Williams amongst others.

[Mandryka]

Schoenberg taught Cage
Fauré taught Ravel

[André Le Nôtre]

Leopold Auer actually composed a small number of works and was teacher of Jascha Heifetz, Mischa Elman, Oscar Shumsky, Ricardo Odnoposoff (?),  Nathan Milstein, and several others.

We attended an organ recital in Vancouver several years ago, and the organist claimed to be a part of the uninterrupted teacher-pupil lineage going back to J.S. Bach himself. He played a single work from each of them, starting with J.S. himself. An interesting premise, but most of the music was not all that interesting IMO.

[71 dB]

Tchaikovsky ---> Taneyev ---> Rachmaninov
Sweelinck ---> Praetorius II ---> Weckmann
Sweelinck ---> Scheidemann ---> Buxtehude --> Bruhns, Schieferdecker, Erich & Leyding
Sweelinck ---> Scheidemann ---> Reincken
Sweelinck ---> Siefert ---> Bernhard
Sweelinck ---> S. Scheidt ---> Krieger
Gabrieli ---> Schütz ---> Theile
Kuhnau ---> Graupner ---> Fasch
Kuhnau ---> Fasch & Heinichen

Fauré taught Ravel

Saint-Saëns ---> Fauré

[Artem]

Josef Matthias Hauer taught Johann Ludwig Trepulka

[André]

César Franck taught Chausson, Duparc, d'Indy, Lekeu, Lazzari, Vierne, Tournemire, Ropartz, Pierné and a few other, lesser names.

[vandermolen]

My belief (in Art and Music) is that the greatest artists and composers were not the greatest teachers and that the greatest teachers were not the greatest artists or composers. As an example I think that Sir Charles Stanford was not an especially great composer (although I like the Symphony No.3 and the Irish Rhapsody No.4 very much) and yet he was the teacher of Vaughan Williams, Holst and many other great composers. The teachers on the Impressionist painters (Monet, Renoir etc) are now largely forgotten (like Gleyre for example). Maximilan Steinberg (now largely forgotten, although I rate him very highly) was the teacher of Shostakovich. My opinion is that if the artist or composer is 'too great' they tend to suffocate their student's individuality. The great Roumanian sculptor Brancusi realised this and refused to study with Rodin, because, as he said 'small acorns cannot grow under a great oak tree'.

[david johnson]

Rimsky-Korsakov taught Igor Stravinsky.

[ritter]

Olivier Messiaen had a whole lot of distinguished students (George Benjamin, Boulez, Alexander Goehr, Stockhausen, Xenakis...)

In Spain, Ernesto Halffter is regarded as Manuel de Falla's only real pupil. Felipe Pedrell was the teacher of Albéniz , Granados and Falla.

[pjme]

André Jolivet was taught by Paul Leflem and possibly can be seen as the only pupil of Edgar Varese.

1927
Avec Paul Le Flem qui exige de lui des « tonnes » de devoirs, il étudie les principes fondamentaux de la composition : harmonie, contrepoint, fugue et choral varié. Son maître l'initie aux grands polyphonistes du XVIè siècle, mais aussi à Bartok et à Berg. Il lui fait découvrir Schönberg au cours de trois concerts donnés salle Pleyel, en 1927.
Music by Leflem : https://youtu.be/uUrLr2Yg2_c
1929
Grâce à Paul Le Flem, il rencontre Edgar Varèse au moment de la création d'Amériques à Paris, salle Gaveau ; puis il étudie avec lui l'orchestration et la composition jusqu'au retour de celui-ci aux USA, en septembre 1933.

Jolivet's Cérémonial for percussion is an hommage to Varese: https://youtu.be/17sq6r9ghO8