Author Topic: GMG --- Friends, Inc.  (Read 17273 times)

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Offline Herman

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2021, 10:45:42 PM »
M Forever was a really smart, knowledgeable member, I think a double bass player who had been in several German orchestras, but who unfortunately was amazingly rude and insulting to anyone he disagreed with. I don't remember Michel.

That's kind of the way I think of him too.
It's not that he couldn't brook disagreement, but things quickly went "that's because you're a crazy German" way, and he didn't take well to things like that.
There are a lot of anti-German sentiments in the classical music scene. Think of Hurwitz cracking jokes over German names for easy laughs.

For me his knowledge vastly outweighed his obnoxiousness

Pink Harp was obviously going though a lot of stuff, asperger may of may not have been be part of it, and no one knows if he ever got out.

As a rule people join GMG for companionship and Pinkie was no exception.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 10:49:53 PM by Herman »

Offline DaveF

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2021, 11:12:01 PM »
Could you explain how to do that? How to search the stored pages?  :)

There's a link to Wayback Machine via archive.org - although how you use it after that I'm not sure.  Others will know the details, but I hope this gives you a start.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2021, 11:25:08 PM »
That's kind of the way I think of him too.
It's not that he couldn't brook disagreement, but things quickly went "that's because you're a crazy German" way, and he didn't take well to things like that.

Actually, it was exactly the other way around: he told numerous people (especially Americans) on numerous occasions "You're not German/Austrian, therefore you know, and can know, nothing about the true spirit of the German/Austrian music".
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Offline Herman

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2021, 11:43:20 PM »
That's not how I remember it, and I have no need to remember him as a bad person.

Offline Florestan

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2021, 11:47:24 PM »
That's not how I remember it, and I have no need to remember him as a bad person.

He was not bad, only bad-tempered.
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Offline Que

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2021, 11:52:58 PM »
The funny thing I remember from Michael aka M Forever is that he was almost exclusively interested in late Romantic Austro-German repertoire, preferably played by the Wiener Philharmoniker conducted by either Carlos Kleiber or Sinopoli. 8)

I once sent on him a CD - posted to his mum in Germany. Payment was made by a short thank you note - from his mum - with a 10 euro bill.  :D

Offline Herman

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2021, 11:56:18 PM »
The funny thing I remember from Michael aka M Forever is that he was almost exclusively interested in late Romantic Austro-German repertoire, preferably played by the Wiener Philharmoniker conducted by either Carlos Kleiber or Sinopoli. 8)

I once sent on him a CD - posted to his mum in Germany. Payment was made by a short thank you note - from his mum - with a 10 euro bill.  :D

Or the Berlin Philharmonic.

Perhaps you need to see it from his perspective, as a double bass player. At that time in music history it starts getting interesting for bass players.

One thing (apart from the German-bashing) that produced bad temper is the almost standard thing on music groups. Almost invariably active musicians leave music discussion groups (in various types of huffs) because they are vastly outnumbered by armchair generals who often act kind of competitive towards the musician and his superior technical knowledge.

MForever used to write lengthy posts about what he knew, often only to be blown away by "I disagree and btw you're a nazi".
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 12:02:28 AM by Herman »

Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #127 on: April 14, 2021, 02:07:43 AM »
M forever was extremely knowledgeable and could be rude in a normal way when his erudite pronouncements about music were not met with unequivocal acceptance or were questioned or even discussed. That's not what got him banned. What got him banned, as I remember it, was that once a particular member got in his cross-hairs he would make the most vicious personal attacks, bringing in the target's job, personal life, achievement in life, etc. It was a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde situation.

Another bizarro character was Josquin des Prez, who espoused bizarro theories of "genius" which by definition excluded females. He started to complain about psychological problems and faded away, if memory serves.

Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #128 on: April 14, 2021, 02:12:02 AM »

Another bizarro character was Josquin des Prez, who espoused bizarro theories of "genius" which by definition excluded females. He started to complain about psychological problems and faded away, if memory serves.

Oh yes, I remember Josquin. He complained a lot about the decline of civilization and moral decay, and especially relating to the Arts.

Offline Florestan

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2021, 02:20:19 AM »
M forever was extremely knowledgeable and could be rude in a normal way when his erudite pronouncements about music were not met with unequivocal acceptance or were questioned or even discussed. That's not what got him banned. What got him banned, as I remember it, was that once a particular member got in his cross-hairs he would make the most vicious personal attacks, bringing in the target's job, personal life, achievement in life, etc. It was a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde situation.

Exactly. IIRC, Superhorn was one of the many who received this treatment. I also remember him bashing someone (Brian?) for being Texas-born.

He was not a monster but painting him as a more or less innocent victim is a gross distortion of facts.

He is the only member ever to have been banned --- and that says a lot.
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Offline Stürmisch Bewegt

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2021, 03:21:31 AM »
I admit to being spellbound by this cast of characters...though they are probably best "recollected in tranquility."  ;D
Leben heißt nicht zu warten, bis der Sturm vorbeizieht, sondern lernen, im Regen zu tanzen.

Offline Brian

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #131 on: April 14, 2021, 04:01:12 AM »
Exactly. IIRC, Superhorn was one of the many who received this treatment. I also remember him bashing someone (Brian?) for being Texas-born.

This is interesting, I did not remember it. It was probably not me as I was not Texas-born, but interestingly, he also struck up such a close (and offline) personal friendship with a Texas-born GMGer that once when I was seeing a concert with the fellow Texan, M Forever called them on the phone to chat! So M and I exchanged a few kind words...he politely (and maybe condescendingly) said I was a promising young man  ;D

I will never forget M changing utterly the way I hear Sibelius 7, when he pointed out the melodic arc played by the strings at the ending, which is almost always buried by Sibelius' own somewhat heavy orchestration.

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #132 on: April 14, 2021, 04:18:51 AM »
M forever was extremely knowledgeable and could be rude in a normal way when his erudite pronouncements about music were not met with unequivocal acceptance or were questioned or even discussed. That's not what got him banned. What got him banned, as I remember it, was that once a particular member got in his cross-hairs he would make the most vicious personal attacks, bringing in the target's job, personal life, achievement in life, etc. It was a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde situation.

Another bizarro character was Josquin des Prez, who espoused bizarro theories of "genius" which by definition excluded females. He started to complain about psychological problems and faded away, if memory serves.

Wait you must have been here for a long time.  Who were you if you don't mind me asking?

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #133 on: April 14, 2021, 04:19:38 AM »
He was not bad, only bad-tempered.

Agreed. He came to work in Boston at one point, and we got together for a cup of tea near my office.
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Offline Herman

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #134 on: April 14, 2021, 04:28:44 AM »
M forever was extremely knowledgeable and could be rude in a normal way when his erudite pronouncements about music were not met with unequivocal acceptance or were questioned or even discussed. That's not what got him banned. What got him banned, as I remember it, was that once a particular member got in his cross-hairs he would make the most vicious personal attacks, bringing in the target's job, personal life, achievement in life, etc.

I have no memory of this vendetta, fortunately.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2021, 04:50:19 AM »

Actually, it was exactly the other way around: he told numerous people (especially Americans) on numerous occasions "You're not German/Austrian, therefore you know, and can know, nothing about the true spirit of the German/Austrian music".
That's not how I remember it, and I have no need to remember him as a bad person.

Actually, Andrej is correct here, which I only say because I was perforce heavily involved in the affair at the time. However, I have no need to remember him as a bad person either, I never thought he was. He had no tolerance for opinions which were incongruent with his own.  His opinions were usually worth defending, so I can't blame him for that. The problem arose from the unrelenting brutality with which he dealt with his perceived adversary. I was sorry to see it end as it did, but there have to be some constraints on behavior to maintain civility.  😕

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Offline Herman

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #136 on: April 14, 2021, 05:18:57 AM »
However, I have no need to remember him as a bad person either, I never thought he was. He had no tolerance for opinions which were incongruent with his own.  His opinions were usually worth defending, so I can't blame him for that.

Maybe the problem was the discrepancy in insight / knowledge. Michael probably could deal very well with another (freelance or fulltime) Berlin Philharmonic musician disagreeing with him. He just had a big problem (over time) having to deal with laymen disagreeing with him.

Like I said, over here and especially at RMCR vast numbers of professionals have left because of this probem and the question of whether you want to spend your time this way.

There are probably top secret forums for music professionals now.

Offline Florestan

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2021, 05:23:44 AM »
Actually, Andrej is correct here, which I only say because I was perforce heavily involved in the affair at the time.

Thank you, Gurn. My memory is still intact, it seems, as opposed to others'...
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Offline Cato

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2021, 05:34:11 AM »

I don't think anyone so far has mentioned snyprrr - I was never sure whether he was from Planet Earth at all, or the inhabitant of some Trans-Neptunian Object who had just hacked into our terrestrial internet.  We talked about home-made pizza once - that was when he had a home, as (if his posts were to be believed) he spent a spell living on the streets.  I think there were a lot of quite unsavoury opinions hidden in his stream-of-consciousness posts.


SNYPRR!  A most manic and curious character!   0:)

"Stream-of-consciousness posts" is right: at times it was a stream of something.... ;)   

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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: GMG --- Friends, Inc.
« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2021, 06:18:33 AM »
Maybe the problem was the discrepancy in insight / knowledge. Michael probably could deal very well with another (freelance or fulltime) Berlin Philharmonic musician disagreeing with him. He just had a big problem (over time) having to deal with laymen disagreeing with him.

Like I said, over here and especially at RMCR vast numbers of professionals have left because of this probem and the question of whether you want to spend your time this way.

There are probably top secret forums for music professionals now.

That would be a great thing!  😊

My great friend, Lis  (Uffeviking) used to say "don't be concerned about Michael, he is just a normal German male.  As a German woman, she had a unique perspective which I can't dispute. However, the irony completely escaped her: the view that all normal German males acted like boorish ars'le's at the drop of a hat. I've dealt with a great many of them, here and elsewhere who were perfectly reasonable and civil, even in exigent circumstances. So, your professional musician theory probably is more likely. That said, I've dealt with many of them, too, with no problem. So maybe he was just uniquely M? 😳

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