Author Topic: Possibly an old mystery  (Read 274 times)

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Offline pjme

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Possibly an old mystery
« on: April 18, 2021, 03:32:54 AM »
I was rummaging through my cds and found this double Vanguard Classics cd box, Netania Davrath singing Canteloube's Chants d'Auvergne.
The booklet tells me that these songs were recorded in 1963 and 1966, in Vienna (Baumgarten Hall), the anonymous orchestra is conducted by a "Pierre de la Roche".
I wonder if someone found out which real orchestra is playing and who could be Pierre de la Roche?

Offline Biffo

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 03:48:27 AM »
The Vienna State Opera Orchestra is an old favourite for budget recordings made in Vienna. The Vienna Philharmonic is drawn from the State Opera Orchestra and for along time I assumed it was Philharmonic players using another name for contractual reasons. There have been several discussions over the years on this subject and it seems the VSOO is a pick-up orchestra drawn from the State Opera Orchestra, the Volksoper Orchestra and the Vienna Symphony Orchestra. Possibly this anonymous orchestra is something similar.

No idea who Pierre de la Roche is.

Offline André

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2021, 03:55:40 AM »
Apparently he is a fiction. Nobody knows who the real conductor in this recording was.


https://www.guideclassique.com/canteloube-chants-d-auvergne/

Offline Biffo

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2021, 04:15:48 AM »
Apparently he is a fiction. Nobody knows who the real conductor in this recording was.


https://www.guideclassique.com/canteloube-chants-d-auvergne/


I was going to add that, following links from Davrath's discography, Pierre only made one recording, the Canteloube.

Offline pjme

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2021, 04:19:55 AM »
My thoughts aswell. The Baumgarten Hall happens to be the Baumgarten Casino and was used by the Austrian Natoional radio and TV.
Wikipedia:
Neben dem Festsaal ist ein analoges Röhrentonstudio, das sich im Gebäude befindet und für Tonaufnahmen durch die Firma Preiser Records genutzt wird, von Bedeutung.[2] Bis zur Eröffnung des ORF-Zentrum Küniglberg 1975 war das Gebäude eine wichtige Produktionsstätte des frühen Fernsehens in Österreich.

So it is definitely possible that the radio orchestra or an Austrian pick up orchestra accompanied mrs. Davrath. The conductor remains unknown.

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 04:27:44 AM »
There's been unverified speculations that the conductor might be Gershon Kingsley, who made other arrangements and later recorded them with Davrath, or Monteux, whose whereabouts during the alleged  recording time and place (27th of March 1963) however seem to speak against it. I'm not aware of any real identification.

Scherchen, liking expressivity and working a lot in Vienna, hasn't been suggested; Rodzinsky for example had died in 1958.

The name Pierre de la Roche might-might be inspired by the French folklorist Paul Fagot (1842-1908), who would sometimes publish under the name Pierre Laroche.

Pierre Roche (1910-2001) was another musician and composer, working with Charles Aznavour and Edith Piaf say in the 1940s, but he hasn't been suggested either.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:41:28 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Stürmisch Bewegt

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 04:45:36 AM »
Whoever it was had a splendid sense of humor:  the Auvergne is, of course, mountainous and "Pierre of the Rock" would seem an appropriate, indeed indigenous, baton wielder.  It's amazing to me that it could be kept secret for so long: the Davrath recording is a very popular one - some listeners' favorite Songs of the Auvergne - and she won a Grammy for it in '63. 
Leben heißt nicht zu warten, bis der Sturm vorbeizieht, sondern lernen, im Regen zu tanzen.

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 04:54:47 AM »
Also, looking at Discogs, Davrath worked with Golschmann in Vienna in those years for Vanguard, plus a bit with Woldike, and Abravanel in Utah. I think Woldike can be excluded, Golschmann did some rather fiery performances with Glenn Gould, Abravanel tends to be middle-of-the-road.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:58:07 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Stürmisch Bewegt

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 05:24:08 AM »
More gumshoeing:  Abravanel did a lotta work for Vanguard and was formerly named de Abravenel (!).  But FWIW, the Canteloube does not number among his preserved scores at the Univ. of Utah School of Music. 
Leben heißt nicht zu warten, bis der Sturm vorbeizieht, sondern lernen, im Regen zu tanzen.

Offline pjme

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 05:57:16 AM »
Then there are:
Josef Leo Gruber (21 January 1912 - 20 November 1984) was an Austrian conductor, composer and violinist. He worked a lot with the Volks Oper orchester and recorded with Davrath on a disc with Jewish/yiddish and Russian songs.
Conductor/arranger Robert De Cormier (January 7, 1922 – November 7, 2017) also contributed to that disc.

However, a pick up orchestra could have been conducted by any other (French?) chef. I doubt that it is one of the big names.
Anyway, I enjoyed a selection of these songs, on this sunny spring day.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 12:40:37 PM »
Whoever it was had a splendid sense of humor:  the Auvergne is, of course, mountainous and "Pierre of the Rock" would seem an appropriate, indeed indigenous, baton wielder.  It's amazing to me that it could be kept secret for so long: the Davrath recording is a very popular one - some listeners' favorite Songs of the Auvergne - and she won a Grammy for it in '63.
I have that lovely Vox set as well. Anonymous conductors were sometimes given names like 'Sir Concert Classics'!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Stürmisch Bewegt

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Re: Possibly an old mystery
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 02:39:57 PM »
I have that lovely Vox set as well. Anonymous conductors were sometimes given names like 'Sir Concert Classics'!

Ha-ha! Most unusual, isn't it, to be knighted without using your real name...?  He must have been classic indeed!  :laugh:
Leben heißt nicht zu warten, bis der Sturm vorbeizieht, sondern lernen, im Regen zu tanzen.