Is there God?

[71 dB]

Oh, yeah, I also became less enthusiastic about identifying as an atheist when the "New Atheists" moved to the Right.  I have a lot more admiration for someone like the Reverend William Barber than I do assholes like Sam Harris or a prat like Richard Dawkins (he's a fine naturalist, though).

I don't let new or old atheists define my atheism. How many ways is there not to believe in God? I have never been insterested of Sam Harris. Richard Dawkins I do like, but no matter how big of assholes they are I still call myself an atheist for a very simple reason: I don't believe in God. I didn't need people like Sean Carroll to explain to me why God is not a good theory. I didn't really think about God before I was about 10 years old and when I started thinking all I saw was logical problems for the religious claims. Later the "silliness" of religious claims came only more apparent thanks to growing up, maturing in logical thinking skills and getting highly educated.

What I didn't understand well was how it is so difficult for many people to recognize these logical problems, but then I heard about Asperger and understood that I am not like "normal" people and so many questions got answered. I am in a small minority of people who have specific strengths and weaknesses compared to other people. One of those strengths is system thinking skills which must have contributed my thinking of religious claims from early age. Most people do not share this skill and I better be aware of that. I understand and even accept religious people more than I used to because of this, but my tolerance has it's limits: Some religious people use their religion as an justification for hate and oppression. That's something I can't accept, but if you act out your religious beliefs in positive ways then good for you!

Anyway, by the time I heard about people like Richard Dawkins, I had been calling myself an atheist for 20 years or so.

[Daverz]

I didn't need people like Sean Carroll to explain to me why God is not a good theory.

That's rather anti-intellectual.  The Sean Carroll talk is an interesting take I have not heard elsewhere, or at least put together the way he does. 

[SimonNZ]

I'm curious to know what Florestan makes of the results.

[Sergeant Rock]

I can't participate in the poll because there is no "I don't know/but I do care" choice.

Sarge

[springrite]

I have often questioned God's justice, but never His existence.

Why is everyone so sure that God is a HE?
I won't even considering believing in God unless or until I am assured that God is or may be a SHE. I find female far more reliable and trustworthy than the lying cheating and generally deplorable men... 

[Mandryka]

Why is everyone so sure that God is a HE?
I won't even considering believing in God unless or until I am assured that God is or may be a SHE. I find female far more reliable and trustworthy than the lying cheating and generally deplorable men... 

You need to read this book

[71 dB]

That's rather anti-intellectual.  The Sean Carroll talk is an interesting take I have not heard elsewhere, or at least put together the way he does.

I think you misunderstood me. Pretty much everything Sean Carroll says is interesting (and smart), but 40 years ago I didn't need his teenager views of the World in order to form my own views about religion and God.

Btw, I have watched that video maybe 2 years ago. 

[Florestan]

I'm curious to know what Florestan makes of the results.

Well, I expected cummulative atheism (absolutely no and probably no) to be in the lead --- and it is. What I didn't expect was theism (absolutely yes) to be a majority of options. That's really a surprise to me.

I said no comments because I didn't want this to degenerate into yet another pointless kerfuffle about religion --- but thanks God (  ) all comments yet have been decent and civil.

[Florestan]

I can't participate in the poll because there is no "I don't know/but I do care" choice.

Sarge

Fixed.

[Karl Henning]

Why is everyone so sure that God is a HE?
I won't even considering believing in God unless or until I am assured that God is or may be a SHE. I find female far more reliable and trustworthy than the lying cheating and generally deplorable men... 

Your quarrel is just.

[Karl Henning]

I can't participate in the poll because there is no "I don't know/but I do care" choice.

Sarge

(* chortle *)

I cast my vote for I don't know / I don't care.

As to "I don't know," I recently watched Great Expectations, and Jaggers advises Pip (who was misled in part by his wishes) "Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule." In the case of God, it isn't so much the chance of being misled by "looks," but by what one is accustomed to suppose/think/feel.

As to "I don't care," this is as much practical consideration as anything. My life's journey has brought me to a Zen-ish place: my feeling is that, if there is a God, she is (I feel) well-disposed towards me, and is not going to play "gotcha!" in my failings. I have learnt that doing right, because it is right, and in spite of whatever inconvenience to me, is how I should act and train my mind. If I am a Christian, it is not any matter of wearing a "Christian name-tag," but of obeying the commandment to love my neighbor, of walking in humility and peace.

There, I've blabbed enow.

[Sergeant Rock]

Fixed.

Thanks.

Sarge

[Brian]

Thanks.

Sarge

I am interpreting "probably yes" and "probably no" as being "I don't know but here's my hunch" - do you describe yourself as "I don't know and it's a tossup/total mystery to me"  or something like that?

[Sergeant Rock]

(* chortle *)

I cast my vote for I don't know / I don't care.

As to "I don't know," I recently watched Great Expectations, and Jaggers advises Pip (who was misled in part by his wishes) "Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule." In the case of God, it isn't so much the chance of being misled by "looks," but by what one is accustomed to suppose/think/feel.

As to "I don't care," this is as much practical consideration as anything. My life's journey has brought me to a Zen-ish place: my feeling is that, if there is a God, she is (I feel) well-disposed towards me, and is not going to play "gotcha!" in my failings. I have learnt that doing right, because it is right, and in spite of whatever inconvenience to me, is how I should act and train my mind. If I am a Christian, it is not any matter of wearing a "Christian name-tag," but of obeying the commandment to love my neighbor, of walking in humility and peace.

There, I've blabbed enow.

Your thoughts mirror my own to a large extent. The reason I say I care about knowing if there is a god is not because I want instruction and rules on how to live my life (or because I fear the afterlife) but to get to the answers of the great questions: What is the purpose of the universe, its meaning, and how did it come into existence. Since I don't believe something comes from nothing, there must have been a creator. something that caused the universe to be. Basically I want to know the how and why concerning the mechanics of creation and the who or whatever that was behind it. "Let there be light" is a good description of the Big Bang but I want to know what or who caused the explosive material to exist in the first place.

I grew up surrounded by an extended family of Christians: Friends (a Quaker offshoot) on one side of my family, Zion Lutheran on the other. I was a believer until I read the whole Bible for the first time at age 19. Agnostic since then.

Sarge

[Florestan]

I am interpreting "probably yes" and "probably no" as being "I don't know but here's my hunch" -

Correct. That is my idea about this option.

"I don't know and it's a tossup/total mystery to me"

AFAIC, that is covered simply by "I don't know / I don't care".

If you need a specific option which is not listed, please let me know, I'll add it.

[Sergeant Rock]

I am interpreting "probably yes" and "probably no" as being "I don't know but here's my hunch" - do you describe yourself as "I don't know and it's a tossup/total mystery to me"  or something like that?

Well, I do believe something created the universe. I just don't believe humanity has created a religion or god or even a scientific theory that explains it to my satisfaction.

Sarge

[Florestan]

(* chortle *)

I cast my vote for I don't know / I don't care.

As to "I don't know," I recently watched Great Expectations, and Jaggers advises Pip (who was misled in part by his wishes) "Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule." In the case of God, it isn't so much the chance of being misled by "looks," but by what one is accustomed to suppose/think/feel.

As to "I don't care," this is as much practical consideration as anything. My life's journey has brought me to a Zen-ish place: my feeling is that, if there is a God, she is (I feel) well-disposed towards me, and is not going to play "gotcha!" in my failings. I have learnt that doing right, because it is right, and in spite of whatever inconvenience to me, is how I should act and train my mind. If I am a Christian, it is not any matter of wearing a "Christian name-tag," but of obeying the commandment to love my neighbor, of walking in humility and peace.

There, I've blabbed enow.

Your thoughts mirror my own to a large extent. The reason I say I care about knowing if there is a god is not because I want instruction and rules on how to live my life (or because I fear the afterlife) but to get to the answers of the great questions: What is the purpose of the universe, its meaning, and how did it come into existence. Since I don't believe something comes from nothing, there must have been a creator. something that caused the universe to be. Basically I want to know the how and why concerning the mechanics of creation and the who or whatever that was behind it. "Let there be light" is a good description of the Big Bang but I want to know what or who caused the explosive material to exist in the first place.

I grew up surrounded by an extended family of Christians: Friends (a Quaker offshoot) on one side of my family, Zion Lutheran on the other. I was a believer until I read the whole Bible for the first time at age 19. Agnostic since then.

Sarge

Most interesting thoughts, gentlemen, thanks for posting.

Karl: is it correct that for you being a Christian is more about living the right life rather than about believing the right things?

Sarge: is it correct that for you there is a difference between agnostic and atheist?

[Brian]

Well, I do believe something created the universe. I just don't believe humanity has created a religion or god or even a scientific theory that explains it to my satisfaction.

Sarge

Thank you.

My life's journey has brought me to a Zen-ish place: my feeling is that, if there is a God, she is (I feel) well-disposed towards me, and is not going to play "gotcha!" in my failings. I have learnt that doing right, because it is right, and in spite of whatever inconvenience to me, is how I should act and train my mind. If I am a Christian, it is not any matter of wearing a "Christian name-tag," but of obeying the commandment to love my neighbor, of walking in humility and peace.

This is wonderful, thank you also.

[Sergeant Rock]

Most interesting thoughts, gentlemen, thanks for posting.
Sarge: is it correct that for you there is a difference between agnostic and atheist?

Yes. I don't deny the possibility that a creator exists. In fact it seems probable. I just have no idea what that "god" is or means to humanity.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Most interesting thoughts, gentlemen, thanks for posting.

Karl: is it correct that for you being a Christian is more about living the right life rather than about believing the right things?

Aye, one of the petitions in the Anglican Evening Prayer service reads in part, "And, we beseech thee, give us that due sense of all thy mercies, that our hearts may he unfeignedly thankful: and that we show forth thy praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives, by giving up our selves to thy service, and by walking before thee in holiness and righteousness all our days." How we act demonstrates what we believe ... and every act should be a prayer.

(* typo *)