Georg Philipp Telemann

Started by Harry, April 15, 2007, 10:55:37 AM

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DaveF

Quote from: Mookalafalas on September 17, 2020, 06:23:55 AM
If you can find a copy of this for a good price (used to be dirt cheap, now may be OOP) it is a treasure.

[asin]B06XJGR3V1[/asin]

It is still (fairly) reasonably priced on Amazon UK MP - £55 or so.  And yes, a definite treasure.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Que

#121
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 16, 2020, 03:06:41 AM
Bump for Telemann...

I've been listening to the Wassermusik disc with Goebel & the Musica Antiqua Köln, and have come away with the impression that Telemann is nowhere near as dry and boring as he is sometimes remembered. That being said, he wrote so much music that I don't know what's worth checking out and what is not.

Anyone listening to Telemann lately?


I seems that over time the mood in Classical circles has shifted on Telemann.  :)

I mean, if even an eminent HIP conductor as Philip Herreweghe was once quoted saying: "Life is too short to listen to Telemann", then as a composer you have a bit of a reputation issue...   ;)

Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.

For me Telemann's "unique selling point" is his ability to perfectly fuse French, Italian and German(ic) Baroque styles into his own highly sophisticated personal musical language. Telemann was a musical polyglot!  :)
This is all so masterly done with such superb technical skills that it feels natural and easy. This technical sophistication brings a subtlety in expression that has been hard to reproduce and has contributed to smooth, bland and uneventful Telemann performances in the past. No wonder his reputation as a "boring" composer.
Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!

Telemann played "straight" by uninformed performers is therefore as dead as a Dodo... ::)  Booooring....  :P
This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss, with some notable exceptions of HIP pioneers like the Leonhardt, Brüggen cs and Goebel. And of course some of the works in Telemann's huge output are more interesting than others....

Some personal favourites, many of which already mentioned by Dave (SonicMan).
As you can see, so far Telemann's chamber and keyboard music have generally worked best for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q

Jo498

#122
Telemann is IMO also the only one who comes to close to Vivaldian colors and combination of instruments or even exceeds him. Even in Tafelmusik there are all kinds of combinations for the "concertos" and chamber music. I probably mentioned already the wind concerto disc by MAK with a haunting concerto for chalumeaux and the famous traverso + recorder concerto. There is also one in E major for a crazy combination incl. Oboe d'amore that is included in an anthology called "Concerti d'amore" with Ponseele etc. Manze also has an old good disc on Denon with that concerto and others with very colorful combinations.

[asin]B000A2GQEW[/asin] [asin]B0000034XH[/asin]
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

SonicMan46

Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM

I seems that over time the mood in Classical circles has shifted on Telemann.  :)

I mean, if even an eminent HIP conductor as Philip Herreweghe was once quoted saying: "Life is too short to listen to Telemann", then as a composer you have a bit of a reputation issue...   ;)

Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.

For me Telemann's "unique selling point" is his ability to perfectly fuse French, Italian and German(ic) Baroque styles into his own highly sophisticated personal musical language. Telemann was a musical polyglot!  :)
This is all so masterly done with such superb technical skills that it feels natural and easy. This technical sophistication brings a subtlety in expression that has been hard to reproduce and has contributed to smooth, bland and unevenful Telemann performances in the past. No wonder his reputation as a "boring" composer.
Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!

Telemann played "straight" by uninformed performers is therefore as dead as a Dodo... ::)  Booooring....  :P
This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss, with some notable exceptions of HIP pioneers like the Leonhardt, Brüggen cs and Goebel. And of course some of the works in Telemann's huge output are more interesting than others....

Some personal favourites, many of which already mentioned by Dave (SonicMan).
As you can see, so far Telemann's chamber and keyboard music have generally worked best for me.

     

   

   

Q

2+! Que - thanks for the excellent discussion and certainly agree w/ your comments; plus, believe that I own most of those CDs shown above except for a few, including the Nuria Rial - the recording is on Spotify, so I'll take a listen (the Amazon reviews are outstanding!) - now I'm not much of a vocal music collector (Bach JS cantatas being the MAJOR exception), so unlikely a purchase - amazing how these streaming musical services (if connected to a good home music system) has almost eliminated my CD purchasing.  Dave :)

The new erato

Poor Telemann! Nobody likes his operas? I like all of these:





I also like some of his cantatas and oratorios but need to dig deeper to name them.....

vers la flamme

There is so much music...  :o I've been listening to concertos, divertimentos, and overtures, all with Reinhard Goebel and the Musica Antiqua Köln. I love what I'm hearing. This music is so full of color and life. Totally not boring! :laugh: I would agree with Jo that the composer that most immediately comes to mind when listening to Telemann is Antonio Vivaldi, though Telemann seems to have a bit more of a cosmopolitan flavor.

Scion7

When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

71 dB

This one arrived finally. I have listened to it once now. It's pretty good and easily worth the money I paid for it (3,57 € delivered). The music is nice, the recorded sound is good (nicely avoid of any harshness) and I think the playing is good too, but then again, I have heard it only once.

I found track [12], the ´Sommeille´ part of Overture in C major very nice.  0:)

[asin]B000038I7S[/asin]

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71 dB

I revisited this Naxos disc:

[asin]B00002759O[/asin]

I was surprised about how enjoyable it is. It is a very old Naxos, but pretty good imo. I feel like I'd like to expand my Telemann collection.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Florestan

#129
Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM
Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.

And God be praised for that! Imo this is the one single most deleterious idea with respect to "classical music".

Give me Telemann over JS Bach any time of the day or of the night.

Plus:

Quotehe wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear.

Haydn, Mozart, Schubert. Nuff said.

My point is, writing first-rate music that is "easy" on the listener's year is a much greater achievement than writing second-rate music that is "emotionally profound" and "challening for the listener".

As Jules Renard excellently put it: "Art is no excuse for boring people."


Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

ritter

Quote from: 71 dB on October 10, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
I revisited this Naxos disc:

[asin]B00002759O[/asin]

I was surprised about how enjoyable it is. It is a very old Naxos, but pretty good imo. I feel like I'd like to expand my Telemann collection.
The Recorder Suite in A minor has been a favourite work of mine since my teens (i.e. for somE four decades now  ;)). Glad you enjoyed it (I don't know that particular recording, though)

Que

Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2020, 09:32:35 AM
My point is, writing first-rate music that is "easy" on the listener's year is a much greater achievement than writing second-rate music that is "emotionally profound" and "challening for the listener".

I Agree completely.  :)

Q

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

71 dB

Quote from: ritter on October 10, 2020, 10:02:51 AM
The Recorder Suite in A minor has been a favourite work of mine since my teens (i.e. for somE four decades now  ;)). Glad you enjoyed it (I don't know that particular recording, though)

Classical radio in Finland used to play a lot this Naxos disc in late 90's when I got into classical music and I remember liking it, but it took my some 15 years to actually buy the CD in 2013. Telemann has been a really strange composer for me and I don't know what to think about him. Sometimes boring, sometimes exciting and I have always wondered why Naxos has released so many CDs of his music when they have made it clear German Baroque outside Bach is not their thing (just look at the releases of Graupner or Fasch!).

I went through my CDs and made a list of what Telemann I have:

Nach Finsternis und Todesschatten TWV 1:1150 - RONDEAU PRODUCTION - ROP 6059
Ouverture a 4 in C - HYPERION - CDA66074
Kaum ist der Heyland auf der Erden TWV 1:991 - CPO - 777 298-2
Du aber Daniel, gehe hin - SONY CLASSICAL/VIVARTE - 88697225032
Trio Sonata in A Minor - NAXOS 8.550409
Trio Sonata in D Minor - NAXOS 8.550377
Trio Sonata in G Major - NAXOS 8.550377
Trumpet Concerto No. 2 in D major - NAXOS 8.554375
Trumpet Concerto No. 1 in D major - NAXOS 8.553531
Overture (Suite) in G minor TWV 55 g4 - NAXOS 8.554244
Overture (Suite) in C major TWV 55 C6 - NAXOS 8.554244
Overture (Suite) in D major TWV 55 D15 - NAXOS 8.554244
Viola Concerto in G - NAXOS 8.550156
Recorder Suite in A Minor - NAXOS 8.550156
Concerto in F for 3 Violins (from Tafelmusik) - NAXOS 8.550156
Concerto for 2 Horns (from Tafelmusik) - NAXOS 8.550156
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

vers la flamme

Any recommendations for recordings of Telemann's sacred works? I can't get enough of his instrumental ensemble music lately.

Jo498

#135
Totally not representative because I also have only a handful of discs. The most famous one is probably "Der Tag des Gerichts" (Judgment day) but I don't remember this one well enough. Things also go oop quickly, maybe check for different issues of the same recordings.

[asin]B002WEC75S[/asin]
[asin]B000001WSF[/asin]
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

ritter

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 31, 2020, 08:01:40 PM
Any recommendations for recordings of Telemann's sacred works? I can't get enough of his instrumental ensemble music lately.
Two recordings I consider classics, and have enjoyed for decades (initially on LP, now on CD):


Resolutely pre-HIP but glorious performance, and the edition used of this Saint Mark Passion is not very orthodox from what I've read, but a very beautiful and moving work.


Der Tag des Gerichts, already mentioned by Jo498, is a really exciting oratorio IMHO.

Que

New issue:



After our [...] complete recording of Telemann's wind concertos on eight CDs, we are presenting yet another Telemann edition, now with his concertos for mixed ensembles – works from the heart's core of his oeuvre – on six CDs in a box set at a special price. Concerto performances featuring a wide range of instrumental groupings against the background of an accompanying string orchestra evidently stirred his creative imagination most strongly of all and inspired him – as Bach in his Brandenburg Concertos – to invent all sorts of different ensemble types. Here Telemann's oft-cited »mixed style« unfolds in all its bright color: French elegance, Italian brilliance, German erudition, and Polish-Hanakian spirit: we find all of the above in these gems of Late Baroque musical performance that often enough opens the door to Empfindsamkeit and the Sturm und Drang.

Chris_Holmes

amw : thanks for your September 2020 list.

I have a little more than 300 Telemann CDs, mainly instrumental works. I have 8 different complete recordings of Quatuors Parisiens. The one by Bruggen was what first stirred my interest (obsession). These last few years have been very busy for me so the Holloway version in your list slipped my notice. I'm so glad you brought it to my attention. I browsed it a bit on Amazon, & it sounds as good as the Kuijkens' recording. I also never knew that L'Orfeo existed in several configurations one of which has had started a set of Wind Ouvertures.

Brass Hole

Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM

Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!

This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss

Q

I agree with your assertions 100 percent. I would single out Telemann the biggest beneficiary of the last phase of the HIP movement and stylishness. He is an anomaly on my favorites list being the fastest gaining composer over the last 10 years.