How Romantic Are You?

[Florestan]

Considering your tastes and preferences, not only in music, but also in literature, painting and other arts, what are you?

Take Romanticism not as much as a strictly circumscribed movement but rather as a psychological disposition / state of mind and soul.

Thanks for participating. Discuss at will.

[ritter]

I'm "definitely non-romantic ", but you knew that already, didn't you? 

Good evening, Andrei.

[Florestan]

I'm "definitely non-romantic ", but you knew that already, didn't you? 

Good evening, Andrei.

Good evening, Rafael.

Of course I suspected as much.

I voted "Definitely Romantic", but you knew that already, didn't you?

[Florestan]

Two quotes to give you an idea of what I mean by Romantic(ism).

"Poetry heals the wounds inflicted by reason."

"To romanticize the world is to make us aware of the magic, mystery and wonder of the world; it is to educate the senses to see the ordinary as extraordinary, the familiar as strange, the mundane as sacred, the finite as infinite."

Novalis

[foxandpeng]

Taking Burke's definition of the Romantic sublime  and the sense of awe alongside the appreciation of beauty, then yes! I love Romanticism in poetry (Charlotte Smith, Lakeland poets, etc) and paintings such as  Caspar David Friedrich's Wanderer.

Romanticism in music really floats my boat.

[Florestan]

Then there's this:

If a man could pass through Paradise in a dream, and have a flower presented to him as a pledge that his soul had really been there, and if he found that flower in his hand when he awoke - Aye! and what then?

And this:

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

[Karl Henning]

Two quotes to give you an idea of what I mean by Romantic(ism).

"Poetry heals the wounds inflicted by reason."

"To romanticize the world is to make us aware of the magic, mystery and wonder of the world; it is to educate the senses to see the ordinary as extraordinary, the familiar as strange, the mundane as sacred, the finite as infinite."

Novalis

Novalis is wonderful, and how Romantic, to ascribe the cause of wounds to Reason.

[Mirror Image]

I voted 'Definitely Romantic', but, honestly, my tastes could be aligned with many 'schools of thought' I suppose.

[steve ridgway]

I'm "Definitely Romantic" in attitude, it's just that I need something more otherworldly than Classical Romantic music to experience the state of awe.

[greg]

Yeah, definitely, just in the broad sense of the word, not in the modern sense (don't care much for flowers, not really into poetry, either, don't care for the Romance genre for movies, etc.).

Conquering and exploring the world is where it's at. Mahler, long-ass JRPGs, epic anime like One Piece, the feeling of endless ambition....

Though the only other aesthetic style which may tie it is surrealism. And then Horror after that. Need that darkness and cerebral stuff as well.

A fusion of surrealism and Romanticism is something I'd like to see more of. I felt like I experienced that for the first time, truly, after playing Shin Megami Tense 3: Nocturne for the first time.

In Post-Apocalyptic Tokyo (destroyed by a cult), the world is filled with only demons, and the few humans you know that still are alive become crazed with power fantasies. That is because they are competing to make their own radical ideologies the foundation of the rebirth of the world, which dies and is reborn in cycles. While you as a player are left to either join or defeat everyone, without any friends at all, on your own, to overthrow Satan and become the most powerful (all while never making an ideology). And the whole game has some incredibly bizarre places, and the permeating sense of emptiness. Wish I knew of more stuff like this.

Before, years ago, I had wanted to see that fusion of surrealism and Romanticism so I managed see some works of art sooort of with that idea (later artists putting a more Romantic styling on MC Escher's ideas, this in a book I still own). But still left a bit to be desired.




That theme, the setting, if it's not some form of surrealist or morbid Romanticism then idk what it is lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPWzbJqm94

[Mandryka]

Two quotes to give you an idea of what I mean by Romantic(ism).

"Poetry heals the wounds inflicted by reason."

"To romanticize the world is to make us aware of the magic, mystery and wonder of the world; it is to educate the senses to see the ordinary as extraordinary, the familiar as strange, the mundane as sacred, the finite as infinite."

Novalis

What is odd for me is that if I think of some typical romantic composers - Chopin or Brahms or Liszt - I really don't understand how their music relates to these ideas of Novalis. And yet if I take some typically modernist composers - Karlheinz Stockhausen and Walter Zimmermann or Francisco Lopez or John Cage or John Zorn - I can see the tie to  Novalis's ideas.  Even Ritter's favourite Pierre Boulez seems quite close to « educate the senses to see the ordinary as extraordinary, the familiar as strange, the mundane as sacred, the finite as infinite.« in, for example, Marteau sans Maître and Pli selon Pli.

I conclude that either I've misunderstood something or Novalis's concept of romanticism is not very useful.

[Florestan]

What is odd for me is that if I think of some typical romantic composers - Chopin or Brahms or Liszt - I really don't understand how their music relates to these ideas of Novalis. And yet if I take some typically modernist composers - Karlheinz Stockhausen and Walter Zimmermann or Francisco Lopez or John Cage or John Zorn - I can see the tie to  Novalis's ideas.  Even Ritter's favourite Pierre Boulez seems quite close to « educate the senses to see the ordinary as extraordinary, the familiar as strange, the mundane as sacred, the finite as infinite.« in, for example, Marteau sans Maître and Pli selon Pli.

I conclude that either I've misunderstood something or Novalis's concept of romanticism is not very useful.

Some quick thoughts.

Chopin: what is a waltz? an ordinary dance. What did he turn it into? Something extraordinary. What genres did he excel at? Short, ie extremely finite, piano pieces --- yet they reveal to us the infinite nuances and shades of human soul.

Liszt: "the mundane as sacred" fits him like a glove, actually.

Brahms: he used mostly classical, ie familiar, forms --- yet he is one of the most enigmatic composers, hiding his ardent, heart-on-sleeve, extra-musically-inspired romanticism behind a deceptive mask of objective and abstract classicism.

I've not heard a single note of Stockhausen and what little Boulez I've heard did not give me any incentive to explore further --- but it might very well be the case that they fit in Novalis' conception.

Food for thought: romantic content in un-romantic language?

[Florestan]

My own theory is that romanticism is first and foremost a psychological disposition, an innate state of mind and soul which is not dependent on place and time. Romantic composers and writers, romantic artists in general, romantic people in general, have existed long before the advent of Romanticism proper and continued to exist long after Romanticism proper disappeared.

All of the above is valid also for classicism, actually.

[Mirror Image]

I'm "Definitely Romantic" in attitude, it's just that I need something more otherworldly than Classical Romantic music to experience the state of awe.

You can't possibly get any more otherworldly than Debussy or Scriabin. Even though both of these composers have ties with Romanticism, it is their attitude and, as a result of this attitude, their music that gives the impression that it goes well beyond this planet. Do clear your head and give these two composers a listen. I know you have a penchant for post-war avant-garde, but these two composers were as avant-garde as you could get back at the turn of the 20th Century.

[Florestan]

You can't possibly get any more otherworldly than Debussy or Scriabin. Even though both of these composers have ties with Romanticism, it is their attitude and, as a result of this attitude, their music that gives the impression that it goes well beyond this planet. Do clear your head and give these two composers a listen. I know you have a penchant for post-war avant-garde, but these two composers were as avant-garde as you could get back at the turn of the 20th Century.

I'll give you Scriabin as otherworldly, albeit more in attitude than in music --- he was clearly and undoubtedly a madman. Debussy, otoh, strikes me as very much of this world: his music is a sensuous celebration of nature. 

[Mandryka]

Some quick thoughts.

Chopin: what is a waltz? an ordinary dance. What did he turn it into? Something extraordinary.

Yes, I see this. Of course, Mozart wrote extraordinary dances and so did Bach and Susato.  It has to be that the distinctive thing that Chopin did with the popular dance form make it romantic in expression -- I'm sure it could be argued, but it sounds like a serious seminar paper!

Liszt: "the mundane as sacred" fits him like a glove, actually.

It doesn't feel right to me, that's to say I don't recognise mundanity in most Liszt, maybe in the Hungarian rhapsodies but not generally, and least of all in the music with a whiff of the sacred. But I should say that I don't know his music very well.

Brahms: he used mostly classical, ie familiar, forms --- yet he is one of the most enigmatic composers, hiding his ardent, heart-on-sleeve, extra-musically-inspired romanticism behind a deceptive mask of objective and abstract classicism.

I don't know his music well enough to argue, but I want to say that this is a different sort of romanticism than Novalis's

. .  Stockhausen and what little Boulez . .
Food for thought: romantic content in un-romantic language?

This thought occurred to me too but I dismissed it because I couldn't make out a link between Common Practice Tonality and the sort of romanticism in Novalis.

[Mirror Image]

I'll give you Scriabin as otherworldly, albeit more in attitude than in music --- he was clearly and undoubtedly a madman. Debussy, otoh, strikes me as very much of this world: his music is a sensuous celebration of nature. 

There are parts of Préludes, Images, Estampes, Pelléas et Mélisande et. al. that transcend this existence to my ears and take my mind to another plane entirely. Agree to disagree, this is merely what I hear and feel within his music.

[steve ridgway]

You can't possibly get any more otherworldly than Debussy or Scriabin. Even though both of these composers have ties with Romanticism, it is their attitude and, as a result of this attitude, their music that gives the impression that it goes well beyond this planet. Do clear your head and give these two composers a listen. I know you have a penchant for post-war avant-garde, but these two composers were as avant-garde as you could get back at the turn of the 20th Century.

Hmm there is some of their stuff on archive.org.

[greg]

My own theory is that romanticism is first and foremost a psychological disposition, an innate state of mind and soul which is not dependent on place and time. Romantic composers and writers, romantic artists in general, romantic people in general, have existed long before the advent of Romanticism proper and continued to exist long after Romanticism proper disappeared.

All of the above is valid also for classicism, actually.

Look up enneagram type 4.

Consensus of 20 people say Mahler was type 4. I 100% agree, it is beyond obvious. He is a perfect example IMO.

https://www.personality-database.com/profile/23933/gustav-mahler-classical-mbti-personality-type

Breakdown of 20 Enneagram vote(s)
4w5   (18)

1w9   (1)

5w4   (1)

And on the official enneagram site, it lists him as well.
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-4

I am thrice homeless, as a native of Bohemia in Austria, as an Austrian among Germans, and as a Jew throughout the world. Everywhere an intruder, never welcomed.
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/gustav-mahler-quotes

You must renounce all superficiality, all convention, all vanity and delusion.
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/gustav-mahler-quotes

Enneagram Four with a Five-Wing: "The Bohemian"

Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
   identity)

[steve ridgway]

You can't possibly get any more otherworldly than Debussy or Scriabin. Even though both of these composers have ties with Romanticism, it is their attitude and, as a result of this attitude, their music that gives the impression that it goes well beyond this planet. Do clear your head and give these two composers a listen. I know you have a penchant for post-war avant-garde, but these two composers were as avant-garde as you could get back at the turn of the 20th Century.

OK, I have listened but for me they don't evoke the right associations. Possibly my notions of sublimity are linked more to vast space, the cosmos, alien worlds and therefore incomprehensible, absorbing or sci-fi sounds.