How Romantic Are You?

[Mirror Image]

OK, I have listened but for me they don't evoke the right associations. Possibly my notions of sublimity are linked more to vast space, the cosmos, alien worlds and therefore incomprehensible, absorbing or sci-fi sounds.

From what you listened to, you only listened to Debussy orchestral works and I was referring to his solo piano music. Debussy didn't actually compose much music for a full orchestra. The same can be said for Scriabin. Anyway, it's obvious that your bias for post-war avant-garde has permeated your listening habits. As much as I love innovation and forward-thinking music, I don't think this is actually a criteria for good music-making. What matters most is whether it affects your heart and mind. In the listening thread, you continuously referred Debussy as film music, which is an ignorant statement, especially since you have seem to have no understanding of the time period in which this composer is from. You barely listened to Scriabin before deciding that he sounds exactly like Debussy. These two composers were at the forefront of musical thought during their time, but, more importantly, they wrote damn good music that anyone with an ear could enjoy.

[steve ridgway]

From what you listened to, you only listened to Debussy orchestral works and I was referring to his solo piano music. Debussy didn't actually compose much music for a full orchestra. The same can be said for Scriabin. Anyway, it's obvious that your bias for post-war avant-garde has permeated your listening habits. As much as I love innovation and forward-thinking music, I don't think this is actually a criteria for good music-making. What matters most is whether it affects your heart and mind. In the listening thread, you continuously referred Debussy as film music, which is an ignorant statement, especially since you have seem to have no understanding of the time period in which this composer is from. You barely listened to Scriabin before deciding that he sounds exactly like Debussy. These two composers were at the forefront of musical thought during their time, but, more importantly, they wrote damn good music that anyone with an ear could enjoy.

I know Debussy didn't write for films, it's my own personal associations based on my childhood memories that colour it. Maybe if I'd never heard anything like this before it'd work for me. My heart and mind are what matter to me, but as they are now they're not affected much by this sort of sound.

[Karl Henning]

I know Debussy didn't write for films, it's my own personal associations based on my childhood memories that colour it. Maybe if I'd never heard anything like this before it'd work for me. My heart and mind are what matter to me, but as they are now they're not affected much by this sort of sound.

No argument to be made with that.

[Mirror Image]

I know Debussy didn't write for films, it's my own personal associations based on my childhood memories that colour it. Maybe if I'd never heard anything like this before it'd work for me. My heart and mind are what matter to me, but as they are now they're not affected much by this sort of sound.

There's nothing worse than having some outside association color your opinion of a composer's music. You might as well be listening with a soundproof wall between your ears and the music. If I approached Boulez or Xenakis with the same kind associations as you did Debussy and Scriabin, wouldn't you think that I would be doing a disservice to the composer? If you don't like the music, just say you don't like it. It's perfectly okay for you to admit that you're a post-war avant-garde guy and cannot tolerate anything that doesn't follow this same kind of pattern. There's no reason to make excuses for it. We all have our blindspots and music that we can't stand.

[Karl Henning]

There's nothing worse than having some outside association color your opinion of a composer's music. You might as well be listening with a soundproof wall between your ears and the music. If I approached Boulez or Xenakis with the same kind associations as you did Debussy and Scriabin, wouldn't you think that I would be doing a disservice to the composer? If you don't like the music, just say you don't like it. It's perfectly okay for you to admit that you're a post-war avant-garde guy and cannot tolerate anything that doesn't follow this same kind of pattern. There's no reason to make excuses for it. We all have our blindspots and music that we can't stand.

John, you're saying things that Steve just ain't saying.  I see no "cannot tolerate" in his comments, whatever.  I don't read any "excuses" in his honest replies.  Let a chap have his own ears.

[Mirror Image]

John, you're saying things that Steve just ain't saying.  I see no "cannot tolerate" in his comments, whatever.  I don't read any "excuses" in his honest replies.  Let a chap have his own ears.

He literally just said that his outside associations were coloring his listening to Debussy and Scriabin. My qualm was this does a disservice to the composer's music.

[steve ridgway]

He literally just said that his outside associations were coloring his listening to Debussy and Scriabin. My qualm was this does a disservice to the composer's music.

Music should never have been appropriated for films and even less so for commercials then we could all have enjoyed just listening to it untainted.

[Mirror Image]

Music should never have been appropriated for films and even less so for commercials then we could all have enjoyed just listening to it untainted.

Well, you should strike out we and insert you, because when I listen to music, I listen to it for what it is in that moment. I love Ligeti and early Penderecki, for example, and their music was used in films, but I don't associate their music with any films at all when I'm listening to it in the moment. I love a plethora of ballet music, but I don't really care anything about watching the dancing or understand its choreography. I love many operas, but I seldom follow the action on stage aside from having read a synopsis. I probably have an unhealthy attitude towards classical music in that I'm not open not to all eras. I don't derive much pleasure from music from the Baroque or Classical Eras, but I freely admit that the fault lies with me and I'm okay with that, because I'm not someone that likes everything he hears. But there are zero outside associations that color this opinion, it's merely my own ears and what I gravitate towards.

[Karl Henning]

He literally just said that his outside associations were coloring his listening to Debussy and Scriabin. My qualm was this does a disservice to the composer's music.

That qualm is one thing.  Your mischaracterization of his remarks as making excuses for not tolerating any music at all does our fellow GMG'er a disservice, yes?

[Karl Henning]

Music should never have been appropriated for films and even less so for commercials then we could all have enjoyed just listening to it untainted.

That horse just may be out the barn already

[steve ridgway]

That horse just may be out the barn already

[Mandryka]

Possibly my notions of sublimity are linked more to vast space, the cosmos, alien worlds and therefore incomprehensible, absorbing or sci-fi sounds.

Have you heard Scriabin's sonatas 9 and 10?

I know Debussy didn't write for films,

Indeed but I was amused to find this on the interweb (my emphasis)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330543702_Claude_Debussy_and_film_music

During French composer Claude Debussy's (1862-1918) lifetime, the film just appeared as anew art. Nevertheless, possibilities of the "moving photograph" preoccupied his imagination. There are no data that he composed anything for early films, but his picturesque music, often inspired by paintings and literary works, shows that he his thoughts were inspired by manners similar to film language. Debussy's compositions (especially Clair de lune from Suite bergamasque) was often used in different film genres - from animated and science-fiction movies to crime films. Composition techniques used by Claude Debussy also helped film composers to articulate their music in different visual surroundings. Among them are: Bernard Herrmann, who used Debussy's idea of "parallel sonorities" in Vertigo (1958) and other Alfred Hitchcock's movies; and John Williams, who adopted usage of modal music and bitonality in order to show unusual situations in many of Steven Spielberg's science-fiction stories, especially in Artificial Intelligence (2001). Among analyzed films, the most fascinating is usage of Clair de lune in Stephen Soderbergh's Ocean's 11 (2001). There the music doesn't only point out narrative and metaphoric references to visuals, but also participates in creating the structure of certain film scenes. This kind of usage of Debussy's music shows that it doesn't function well only in special settings of unspecified stories; despite its poetic and lyrical content, Debussy's Clair de lune functions in a more contemporary context, even side by side with contemporary popular music.

Right. I've finished trolling for now.

[Mandryka]

Actually no, not finished trolling. This is for Steve

https://www.youtube.com/v/Im_N8qD4Yws&ab_channel=ChristopherMacIntyre

[Mirror Image]

That qualm is one thing.  Your mischaracterization of his remarks as making excuses for not tolerating any music at all does our fellow GMG'er a disservice, yes?

Honestly, I'm not concerned nor worried about what I said, Karl. I said what I wanted to and that's all I'm going to say. We shouldn't be so sensitive to the point where someone can't speak their mind. I knew there would be retaliation in what I said. There always is when one is being honest.

[Mirror Image]

Also, if Steve was offended by anything I wrote to him, then I'll gladly apologize. I know I can be abrasive sometimes, but when people who are passionate about something that is well beyond them, they are bound to make assertions that cut a bit along the way. If you love this music, then none of us are free of saying such things.

[mabuse]

Actually no, not finished trolling. This is for Steve

https://www.youtube.com/v/Im_N8qD4Yws&ab_channel=ChristopherMacIntyre

I didn't know Isao Tomita... Is he famous ?
https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mJSj-785Ujz2cedEUlWGjUZ73hFe0z6uE

[Karl Henning]

Honestly, I'm not concerned nor worried about what I said, Karl. I said what I wanted to and that's all I'm going to say. We shouldn't be so sensitive to the point where someone can't speak their mind. I knew there would be retaliation in what I said. There always is when one is being honest.

I am very sorry if you feel my remarks were retaliatory, John.

[Mirror Image]

I am very sorry if you feel my remarks were retaliatory, John.

Oh, I didn't mean to make the implication that you were acting in this manner. Perhaps I used the wrong word, but I was just talking about that I was bound to get a strong reaction by my assertions. I know you're not vindictive person, Karl. Thank you for your apology, but there really was nothing to apologize for, my friend.

[Mandryka]

I didn't know Isao Tomita... Is he famous ?
https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mJSj-785Ujz2cedEUlWGjUZ73hFe0z6uE

Yes, I think so, like Wendy Carlos.

[steve ridgway]

Actually no, not finished trolling. This is for Steve

https://www.youtube.com/v/Im_N8qD4Yws&ab_channel=ChristopherMacIntyre

Thanks Mandryka, the synth sounds worked very well for that piece.