Author Topic: Are the aliens here?  (Read 736 times)

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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2021, 09:26:57 PM »
One other thing, Southern California where these events happened is full of not only military but restricted space for tests and training for the military.  One of the three locations in the US that launches rockets is 80 miles north at Vandenberg Air force Base and they frequently don't announce launches if they are military/spy cargo and fly overhead.  At the right time, just before dusk or predawn, they are a huge source of UFO sightings when people see strange lights and objects in the sky.  Second, the area of these sightings is near San Gabriel Island - an island used exclusively by the Navy and even has experimental drone research and training from there.  How coincidental that all these sightings are around 20 miles of San Gabriel Island.  I'm a local pilot and skipper to these waters and often hear on the radio the Navy tell a boater to leave an area due to an active naval training underway. 

I watched this spectacular dawn launch from my room 80 miles south of where it happened.  Tons of UFO sightings were on the news.  I can imagine many of these Corbell videos are simply military tests or private drones that fail to file the proper paper work or are not public even classified to military.  These objects don't do anything unusual.  The latest Corbell video, the radar indicates four low flying objects with a speed between 50 and 138 knots and even there, there is debate if the radar operators say "138" or "38" - it's a bit garbled and hard to hear and cleverly, corbell's video release intentionally doesn't show the radar readout so you only see the objects not the details.  Very, very mundane speeds. 


Interesting comments, thank you. Looking for example at Twitter for "#UFO" postings, one will see people posting all sorts of very simple/obvious hoaxes, clouds and lights on the sky, all the time, creating a lot of irrelevant noise, for sure. There may even be a barrage of them these days, due to the general attention to the subject. It's disappointing if major news stations show a lack of criticism.
My impression is that your photo doesn't necessarily have to be photo-shopped, with the right light conditions, it may be a naturally perceived scene.

But then, here's another former, relevant US official 'coming out' ...
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/555761-extraordinary-explanations-for-ufos-look-increasingly-plausible
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 09:59:17 PM by MusicTurner »

Offline relm1

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2021, 04:23:59 AM »
Interesting comments, thank you. Looking for example at Twitter for "#UFO" postings, one will see people posting all sorts of very simple/obvious hoaxes, clouds and lights on the sky, all the time, creating a lot of irrelevant noise, for sure. There may even be a barrage of them these days, due to the general attention to the subject. It's disappointing if major news stations show a lack of criticism.
My impression is that your photo doesn't necessarily have to be photo-shopped, with the right light conditions, it may be a naturally perceived scene.

But then, here's another former, relevant US official 'coming out' ...
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/555761-extraordinary-explanations-for-ufos-look-increasingly-plausible

That picture wasn't photoshoped.  I saw it and took tons of pictures of the same event.  It was a spectacular sight and the cloud was visible for maybe 30 minutes.  The reason it's so bright is it was high enough that the sunlight struck the exhaust though it was after dark on the ground.  Here is a very good explanation of the ufo's in that original round of Naval releases from corbel.  A critical analysis of them which is missing from practically all news sources who seem to prefer the extraordinary claim but not requiring extraordinary evidence or allowing for a counter opinion.
 
https://youtu.be/Le7Fqbsrrm8

Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2021, 06:16:31 AM »
     If I'm the UFO czar my job is make sure the public discussion is diffuse enough so that fake ignorance covers any real ignorance and other failures to respond adequately.

     Government sources have not reversed their position on what these objects are, they have adjusted to a new era where talking vaguely about what these objects are is less problematic than refusing to talk about them. I don't expect a frank public discussion of intelligence and defense vulnerabilities. That's not going to happen. It follows that any public discussion of these occurrences by official sources will not be frank, or will be by those who are not well informed.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 08:01:36 PM by drogulus »
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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2021, 11:38:41 AM »
The suggestion that it is perhaps secret Russian or Chinese technology is strongly rejected by the current head of the Danish Airforce operations academy and technical analyst Karsten Marrup, who says that a few years ago he'd fiercely oppose any ideas about alien technology, but that now, though it's really mentally challenging, he can't rule it out, because the designs and movements contradict anything known so far.

Some other, wild guesses presented in the media:
- not aliens, but inhabitants/'us' from the future
- visitors from other, undiscovered layers of reality or dimensions
- alien civilizations, who have gone much more technological than us ...
- optical phenomena, or 'holograms', by unknown causes

(etc. ...)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 11:43:04 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2021, 06:24:43 AM »
The suggestion that it is perhaps secret Russian or Chinese technology is strongly rejected by the current head of the Danish Airforce operations academy and technical analyst Karsten Marrup, who says that a few years ago he'd fiercely oppose any ideas about alien technology, but that now, though it's really mentally challenging, he can't rule it out, because the designs and movements contradict anything known so far.



     The openness strategy is to make statements acknowledging the phenomena while "not knowing very much" about the details.

     In the US the Navy and assorted government officials do the not knowing very much part publicly.

     I would expect anything that's unknown so far to be secret. The Nimitz Carrier Strike Group deployment in 2004, the "Tic Tac" incident, gives clues about both the not knowing and telling, and the knowing and not telling parts:

By multiple accounts from vetted first-hand sources, the hard drives that record CEC data from the E-2C Hawkeye and Aegis-equipped ships were seized in a very mysterious fashion following the Tic Tac incident. Uniformed U.S. Air Force officers showed up on these vessels and confiscated the devices and they were never to be seen again. This is not rumor or hearsay, this is attested to by multiple uniformed witnesses that were on the vessels that made up the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group at the time.

At the same time, on an official level, the Navy seemed to shut down any further investigation into the incident. The aforementioned after-action report states that the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group’s senior intelligence officer, whose name is redacted, alerted the Navy’s 3rd Fleet intelligence officer, or N2, about the incident via secure Email. That same Email, known as a Mission Report (MISREP), included the video footage and other details.

For unexplained reasons, officials at the 3rd Fleet N2 declined to send this report up the chain of command. They also deleted the MISREP, but speculated that paper copy should have been available. However, there is no indication that anyone went looking for this physical copy of the MISREP during the investigation.


     The good stuff is in the knowing and not telling part. That's where explanations of what witnesses saw would be.
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Offline LKB

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2021, 09:19:49 AM »
I'm the son of a USAF veteran, who flew combat missions during the Korean War and over Vietnam. Based on what my parents eventually told me and my siblings, ( decades after my father's service ), along with what we've parsed out over the years, l can state the following with a high degree of confidence.

1) UAPs have been encountered by pilots since WWII. In Dad's own words, " Any professional pilot who is flying regularly, has or will encounter these things. "

2) The odds that these craft are of Russian or Chinese origin are vanishingly small. The odds that they originated in the United States are somewhat higher.

3) The US government has demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice the lives of military personnel in order to protect sensitive assets. I have personal knowledge of this aspect of governmental policy. If the vehicles tracked in the released FLIR footage were of US origin, the government is going to protect that fact to every extent possible. Alternatively, if the craft were actually piloted by either ETs or some sort of autonomous technology, the government's response would almost certainly be exactly the same.

So while the truth may be out there, we shouldn't expect to receive it from any official US agency, or to be present in the forthcoming report.

LKB

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Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2021, 09:30:15 AM »
I'm the son of a USAF veteran, who flew combat missions during the Korean War and over Vietnam. Based on what my parents eventually told me and my siblings, ( decades after my father's service ), along with what we've parsed out over the years, l can state the following with a high degree of confidence.



2) The odds that these craft are of Russian or Chinese origin are vanishingly small. The odds that they originated in the United States are somewhat higher.



     Why would odds be different for Russians or Chinese? I think these phenomena don't have a single cause. It's us, for all "us", and them. The USAF seized all the hard data because of what it revealed about our capabilities, and the capabilities of an adversary. I don't think all of these incidents involve craft, either. I think sensors are being played with.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2021, 09:37:12 AM »

     I think it's cheaper to build tech to make us see impossible things than to build tech that does impossible things.
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Offline BasilValentine

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2021, 10:05:25 AM »

2) The odds that these craft are of Russian or Chinese origin are vanishingly small. The odds that they originated in the United States are somewhat higher.

3) The US government has demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice the lives of military personnel in order to protect sensitive assets. I have personal knowledge of this aspect of governmental policy. If the vehicles tracked in the released FLIR footage were of US origin, the government is going to protect that fact to every extent possible. Alternatively, if the craft were actually piloted by either ETs or some sort of autonomous technology, the government's response would almost certainly be exactly the same.

So while the truth may be out there, we shouldn't expect to receive it from any official US agency, or to be present in the forthcoming report.

LKB

Given that the craft (which means leaving out the "fast moving" balloon) in these cases are likely commercial airliners and jets operating on the books in the US whose distance from the observer was misindentified, yes, the chances that they are Russian or Chinese is vanishingly small.  ::) Did you see the video posted by relm 1 in which simple math, trigonometry, and knowledge of photographic equipment is used to debunk all of the current favorites?

Offline LKB

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2021, 10:26:47 AM »
Here's an interview with the pilot who was flying the F/A-18 from whence the " tic-tac " video came.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-and-a-with-navy-pilot-chad-underwood.html

And it's worth mentioning that both USS Princeton and his CO had made contact with the object, visually in the case of the CO.

So while spoofing a FLIR system may be possible, it seems unlikely in this instance.

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2021, 10:29:00 AM »
No matter what, it seems likely that the basic question about the possible existence of life elsewhere in space, in one form or another, will be answered within 2-3 decades, due to the advances in science  ...
About 25 years ago I attended a seminar or a talk where the ominous Drake equation estimating the probabilities for extraterrestrial life/contact was discussed. Back then, it was a common assumption that an important cause for lack of contact might be the lack of habitable earthlike planets as in the mid-1990s we didn't know about ANY extrasolarsystem planet. Only 10 years later and now more than 20 years later we have discovered so many exoplanets that mere lack of planets is very probably not the decisive factor. I only mention this to show the uncertainties involved and how quickly can something change but not towards resolving the basic puzzle. So now we can be fairly sure it is not merely lack of planets, so it must be another factor we had estimated wrongly to explain the low probability. Therefore I am extremely skeptical that these questions will be resolved within another 25 years...
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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2021, 10:47:42 AM »
The remark about a couple of decades was about discovering some sort of existing or previous life form elsewhere, even microbic, not any civilization per se. The quick, recent discoveries of many exoplanets, however modest in relation to their real, likely huge number, also illustrate the advancing scientific tools.

In the Big Number Department, Brian Cox suggests a likely 200 billion civilizations or more, that is, one per galaxy, and the number of galaxies then estimated quite low.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 10:57:53 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Irons

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2021, 06:30:55 AM »
The remark about a couple of decades was about discovering some sort of existing or previous life form elsewhere, even microbic, not any civilization per se. The quick, recent discoveries of many exoplanets, however modest in relation to their real, likely huge number, also illustrate the advancing scientific tools.

In the Big Number Department, Brian Cox suggests a likely 200 billion civilizations or more, that is, one per galaxy, and the number of galaxies then estimated quite low.

A new series from BBC with Brian Cox has just began on this subject. To prove life can exist in inhospitable environments Cox travelled to the deepest ocean's beds. My wife who watched the programme said he was shaken by the experience.   
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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2021, 06:46:05 AM »
It's possible that he's revised his opinions somewhat; in 2014, he's quoted for saying that we are surely alone, in this galaxy at least.

I guess the series will tell more, but the media are generally quick at reporting any news/discoveries on the subject, so only a future "smoking gun" would probably constitute any real news. But his programs tend to be fascinating, and visually, the Brits of course tend to produce them magnificently.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2021, 07:54:54 AM »
My point was that a factor that was assumed to be decisive, changed completely in that we now think the planets, even earthlike ones are not rare at all. We know more now, which is good but the change was not incremental or directional (as one factor is totally different than previously assumed but the end result (nobody out there?) very similar, it follows that other factors must also be different than assumed), so there is a morale here about huge ignorance and uncertainty in "known unknowns". I think it is highly likely that there are factors for the development of life or intelligent life that are "unknown unknowns". Therefore I do not expect that the general ignorance wrt alien life will be so different in 2050 than it is now.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2021, 08:07:41 AM »


     There's nothing to stop the aliens showing up 100,000,000 years early, or late. Even being off by 100,000 years is as good as a complete miss.

     We should contemplate not only the rareness factor for advanced civilizations, but also the deep unlikelihood that the timing would by right. Chemistry being what it is, life is probably ubiquitous.
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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2021, 08:18:00 AM »
Well, some people are suggesting that advanced civilizations would be independent of biological factors, and that also, they'd conceive a rather stasis-like, unflexible canon of behaviour, aimed at maintaining their own existence and avoid disastrous changes.

Of course, disasters could be another side-effect or a natural development of things.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 08:22:13 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline greg

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2021, 11:36:59 AM »
Dreamed last night I saw an actual UFO, and it was confirmed to be aliens. Woke up disappointed.  :-X
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Offline drogulus

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2021, 12:59:36 PM »
Dreamed last night I saw an actual UFO, and it was confirmed to be aliens. Woke up disappointed.  :-X

     I dreamt I won the Nobel Prize for economics. Then I woke up and discovered they gave it to some alien asshole for "Cosmic Inflation".
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Offline greg

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Re: Are the aliens here?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2021, 08:25:11 PM »
     I dreamt I won the Nobel Prize for economics. Then I woke up and discovered they gave it to some alien asshole for "Cosmic Inflation".
Yeah, screw that guy! Or her! Or zher! Or %@)&!   (whatever their alien gender pronouns may be)

The Intergalactic Economists Guild just hates humans anyways, they've always favored Zigglians... most privileged species outside the Milky Way, if you ask me...
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