Are the aliens here?

Started by milk, May 25, 2021, 06:58:30 AM

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drogulus


     Richard Carrier is one of the foremost bog slayers on the planet, though he focuses his attention on the supernatural variety most of the time.

     UFOs Are Not That Remarkable

     
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steve ridgway

Some of my photos taken from the garden this time last year. Make of them what you will... ::)


LKB

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 11, 2021, 07:25:20 AM
Some of my photos taken from the garden this time last year. Make of them what you will... ::)

That is a high-altitude balloon. Growing up on a SAC base in the 1960's, l would spot these during their ascent. As their altitude increases the diameter expands until they are nearly spherical, but in the first minutes after launch they look like enormous jellyfish.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

steve ridgway

Quote from: LKB on June 11, 2021, 11:36:51 AM
That is a high-altitude balloon. Growing up on a SAC base in the 1960's, l would spot these during their ascent. As their altitude increases the diameter expands until they are nearly spherical, but in the first minutes after launch they look like enormous jellyfish.

That is what I thought. The still photos made it clearer than watching it move at the time.

LKB

The big ufo report from the US government is supposedly imminent. Here's what retired USAF Lt. General Jack Weinstein said on the subject:

" I can't believe we're the most intelligent life-form in the entire universe, 'cause that means the universe is pretty dumb. "

l agree completely.

Personally, l expect the report will generate more confusion and disappointment than anything else. It is, after all, a government project.

:D,

LKB
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

MusicTurner

#45
The unclassified report has landed (and the classified has been handed over to congress).

This is apparently some of it:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf

There isn't much to it immediately it seems; but:
"• 144 reports originated from USG sources. Of these, 80 reports involved observation with multiple sensors.
Most reports described UAP as objects that interrupted pre-planned training or other military activity.
" (...)

"And a Handful of UAP Appear to Demonstrate Advanced Technology. In 18 incidents, described in 21 reports, observers reported unusual UAP movement patterns or flight characteristics. (...) "

.........................................................................
Here are however some of the other, spectacular news stories in recent days:

- evidence for extremely cold, salty, sub-surface lakes on Mars ?
https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-mystery-of-subsurface-lakes-under-mars-south-pole-deepens/

- the 10 most likely places to find life in our solar system
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/16/1026473/best-worlds-extraterrestrial-life-solar-system-ranked/

- scientists presenting 100s of nearby star systems with reasonable views to Earth, corresponding to our current technology level
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2281783-aliens-orbiting-1402-stars-near-earth-could-be-looking-at-us-right-now/

- rumors of a Pentagon UFO photo (that said, British tabloids have been willing to publish absolutely anything, however ridiculous, about alleged UFO encounters)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15367584/pentagon-black-triangle-ufo-photo-fighter-pilot/



LKB

In 1947, extra-terrestrial beings supposedly crashed their spacecraft in the area of Roswell, NM.

As it happened, my father's first orders as a new lieutenant were to Roswell AFB, in 1950.

Mom told me that any questions, discussion or conjecture regarding anything related to " ufos " were strictly forbidden by the command structure at Roswell AFB. A curiously strict policy, if the incident in question merely concerned a weather balloon....



Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

relm1

Quote from: LKB on June 25, 2021, 06:42:52 PM
In 1947, extra-terrestrial beings supposedly crashed their spacecraft in the area of Roswell, NM.

As it happened, my father's first orders as a new lieutenant were to Roswell AFB, in 1950.

Mom told me that any questions, discussion or conjecture regarding anything related to " ufos " were strictly forbidden by the command structure at Roswell AFB. A curiously strict policy, if the incident in question merely concerned a weather balloon....

It wasn't merely a weather balloon.  It was a cold war era listening device used to detect possible atomic tests in the soviet union during the start of the cold war.  Given the paranoia of that very era, with senator McCarthy's national witch hunts just a few years away, of course it makes sense that military would consider talk of a cover story around a soviet listening device to be strictly prohibited. 

Spotted Horses

Quote from: LKB on June 25, 2021, 06:42:52 PM
In 1947, extra-terrestrial beings supposedly crashed their spacecraft in the area of Roswell, NM.

As it happened, my father's first orders as a new lieutenant were to Roswell AFB, in 1950.

Mom told me that any questions, discussion or conjecture regarding anything related to " ufos " were strictly forbidden by the command structure at Roswell AFB. A curiously strict policy, if the incident in question merely concerned a weather balloon....

The U.S. published a report on the Roswell rumor some years ago, which made perfect sense. First a high altitude balloon used in a military testing was lost. There was a photo of someone exhibiting the debris in the local newspaper, which seems to show balsa wood and aluminized mylar. The same guy later went around giving speeches about the advanced alien space ship. Later tests were done of high altitude ejection seats, which resulted in some going off course and landing in farmers fields, complete with weird looking dummies. Of course onlookers were kept away as the debris was collected.

The two were conflated in the popular imagination to creat the myth of a flying saucer crash with alien corpses scattered about. The Air Force seemed to think this was a good distraction from the true explanation, tests of military technology.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

drogulus

Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 26, 2021, 07:49:06 AM
The U.S. published a report on the Roswell rumor some years ago, which made perfect sense. First a high altitude balloon used in a military testing was lost. There was a photo of someone exhibiting the debris in the local newspaper, which seems to show balsa wood and aluminized mylar. The same guy later went around giving speeches about the advanced alien space ship. Later tests were done of high altitude ejection seats, which resulted in some going off course and landing in farmers fields, complete with weird looking dummies. Of course onlookers were kept away as the debris was collected.

The two were conflated in the popular imagination to creat the myth of a flying saucer crash with alien corpses scattered about. The Air Force seemed to think this was a good distraction from the true explanation, tests of military technology.

     The report has a public and a secret version. The public one says we don't know very much about these phenomena. The secret ones says we know a good deal about some of them. I surmise that the details are secret and the general outline is so obvious a spaceman can see it from parsecs away. We're doing stuff and adversaries are doing stuff and it's an arms race of measures and countermeasures.
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LKB

So I downloaded and read the eagerly-awaited report, and basically my reaction was, " Really? "

So much conjecture, suspense and " expert  " commentary, for nine pages?

All the " report " accomplishes is to illustrate something of the extent of what is not being reported.

Presumably the House Intelligence Committee received something more robust. And yes, l did note the use of the word, " interim " in the public product.

But it doesn't whet my appetite for additional releases, and my cynicism circuitry is now activated.  ::)
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

relm1

Quote from: drogulus on June 26, 2021, 08:41:10 AM
     The report has a public and a secret version. The public one says we don't know very much about these phenomena. The secret ones says we know a good deal about some of them. I surmise that the details are secret and the general outline is so obvious a spaceman can see it from parsecs away. We're doing stuff and adversaries are doing stuff and it's an arms race of measures and countermeasures.

The secret one will also go in to details of known military technology and test programs that are of equipment not yet announced.  This whole todo about nothing is that some branches of the military aren't privy to what other branches are doing and that will remain the case as new technology is tested.  Many of these reports happened around 20 miles near San Clemente Island, which is an island owned by the Navy for testing and training and it includes a brand new drone runway.  They are probably testing new drones and some might be flying in formation like smart cars that talk to each other.  I agree with the report that there were reports of the UAPs flying in uncharacteristic "advanced" methods but it never says that was verified which can also be explained by loss of perspective.  When you see something you weren't expecting, you don't have enough information of where it is and what it is doing so if you expect it farther away than it actually is, it might seem to be flying in impossible ways but it could also just be very close. 

steve ridgway

The only way this whole question will ever be settled is by revealing some aliens. ::)

MusicTurner

#53
If inhabitants from other planets went for discoveries here, they'd very likely be sending drones, to transcend biological travel problems. They might even have evolved into non-biological beings themselves.

Here's another, spectacularly colourful take from the recent media buzz:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-possible-link-between-oumuamua-and-unidentified-aerial-phenomena/

Loeb, who's been launching some of the more adventurous ideas, also thinks that
https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-likely-thinks-ufos-not-human-astrophysicist-says-ahead-report-1603421

A more detailed recent article on nearby exoplanets:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2021/06/23/29-intelligent-alien-civilizations-may-have-already-spotted-us-say-scientists/?sh=61c4b2ec2d6a

steve ridgway

Quote from: MusicTurner on June 27, 2021, 06:53:42 AM
If inhabitants from other planets went for discoveries here, they'd very likely be sending drones, to transcend biological travel problems. They might even have evolved into non-biological beings themselves.

Here's another, spectacularly colourful take from the recent media buzz:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-possible-link-between-oumuamua-and-unidentified-aerial-phenomena/

Loeb, who's been launching some of the more adventurous ideas, also thinks that
https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-likely-thinks-ufos-not-human-astrophysicist-says-ahead-report-1603421

A more detailed recent article on nearby exoplanets:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2021/06/23/29-intelligent-alien-civilizations-may-have-already-spotted-us-say-scientists/?sh=61c4b2ec2d6a

Intelligent aliens might be entertained by human cultural products such as art, music and literature, but humans are probably not the sort of people they'd want on their planets.

LKB

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 27, 2021, 09:04:24 AM
Intelligent aliens might be entertained by human cultural products such as art, music and literature, but humans are probably not the sort of people they'd want on their planets.

I doubt they'd find any of our artistic or cultural endeavors to be particularly interesting, except as data. ETs would almost certainly be advanced not only in technological terms, but in every societal area.

For me, listening to tribal musicians banging on logs isn't interesting for very long. For ETs, the greatest works in western music would probably be perceived as obvious, limited and boring ( except to an alien musicologist... maybe ).
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

steve ridgway

I can now see the wisdom of the vast distances between stars and the speed of light limit. Species such as humans have plenty of resources in their own solar systems to take care of or exploit ruthlessly and destroy, but the rest of the universe is safe.

milk

Quote from: LKB on June 27, 2021, 11:18:48 AM
I doubt they'd find any of our artistic or cultural endeavors to be particularly interesting, except as data. ETs would almost certainly be advanced not only in technological terms, but in every societal area.

For me, listening to tribal musicians banging on logs isn't interesting for very long. For ETs, the greatest works in western music would probably be perceived as obvious, limited and boring ( except to an alien musicologist... maybe ).
Maybe they like BTS? Or this:

https://youtube.com/v/aq8QEQ0seu0

foxandpeng

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 30, 2021, 09:45:15 AM
I can now see the wisdom of the vast distances between stars and the speed of light limit. Species such as humans have plenty of resources in their own solar systems to take care of or exploit ruthlessly and destroy, but the rest of the universe is safe.

Agreed. Earth: pointless rubble covered by a moist film of biological sludge, in a spiral arm of an unremarkable galaxy, in the vast detritus field of space. Lots of space between that and the nearest similarly damp, cold rock.

Unless, of course, one has a broader view of the presence of over-arching intelligence, purpose and curation in the universe. In which case, lots of space between this planet and the next is probably a good thing anyway. 
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

milk

I don't agree that humanity is necessarily unremarkable. Transcendence might just be remarkable - depending on who and what's remarking, of course. I read Hitchhiker's. But maybe our success or failure really does mean something. Consciousness, transcendence, imagination and love, might be part of the deeper questions of what and why. Or maybe not.