Author Topic: Ihre Favourite Winterreise  (Read 745 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rinaldo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1813
  • Cara sposa, dove sei?
    • aaraaf.net
  • Location: Prague
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2021, 03:52:53 PM »
...but with knowledge of the score you start to recognise and be bothered by the "wrong" keys etc.

I don't read music, so I'm spared of this, but all the different tranpositions do mess with my perception of the work.

(I'm not being very helpful, am I.)

Hah, Fraser is ace. And I'll certainly give Englisch a shot when I'm tired of all the umlauts.

The most searing account is Schreier with Richter live - coughs and all!

The one piece where you could argue the audience is being in character...

Offline jlopes

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2021, 04:21:56 PM »
Winterreise is my favorite work of music. I think I have more than thirty recordings.

These two are my top choices:





Other favorites:
Hotter/Moore
Goerne/Brendel
Schreier/Schiff
Prey/Sawallisch
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 04:54:16 PM by jlopes »

Offline Rinaldo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1813
  • Cara sposa, dove sei?
    • aaraaf.net
  • Location: Prague
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2021, 02:21:32 AM »
Winterreise is my favorite work of music. I think I have more than thirty recordings.

Wow! Thanks for sharing your faves. Can't wait to start exploring (and collecting), my wallet is having an emotional breakdown already.

Offline MusicTurner

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1929
  • Location: Cph
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2021, 03:21:20 AM »
Probably already mentioned here by others before, but I didn't know until now, that there's an orchestrated version by Hans Zender. It's on youtube as a live performance, and there's a CD recording from 2018.

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4642
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2021, 03:24:41 AM »
There are multiple CD recordings yes. I think I have two of them.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15847
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2021, 03:29:59 AM »
Probably already mentioned here by others before, but I didn't know until now, that there's an orchestrated version by Hans Zender. It's on youtube as a live performance, and there's a CD recording from 2018.

I thought it was a bit uninteresting, but let me know if you think I'm wrong. It just seemed to be a pointless orchestration!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline amw

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4642
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2021, 03:38:09 AM »
It is a genuine attempt to reimagine the music for orchestra. Whether it's an interesting one is obviously subjective.

Offline MusicTurner

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1929
  • Location: Cph
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2021, 04:04:22 AM »
Well, Zender does tend to be an artist of the serious/sincere sort throughout, I think.

Online ritter

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6913
  • Raoul Dufy, "Tragédie, Comédie"
  • Location: "La Villa y Corte"
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2021, 04:07:51 AM »
It is a genuine attempt to reimagine the music for orchestra. Whether it's an interesting one is obviously subjective.
+1. Zender's piece is much more than an orchestration, as it expands and alters the music (mainly in the supporting instrumental lines, but not only there), sometimes significantly. I find it fascinating and, yes, very interesting.

Here the opening Gute Nacht, performed by the son (Julian Prégardien)...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BziaRrooffI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BziaRrooffI</a>

...and the concluding Der Laiermann, sung by the father (Christoph Prégardien)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WiIvf6Bec" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1WiIvf6Bec</a>
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 03:19:17 PM by ritter »
ritter
-------------------------------------------------------------
„Gibt es kein Hinüber?
Sind wir schon da?
Wie konnt' es geschehen?
Sind wir schon drüben?“

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5285
  • Location: Germany
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2021, 04:10:24 AM »
I thought it was a bit uninteresting, but let me know if you think I'm wrong. It just seemed to be a pointless orchestration!
I don't know the Zender orchestration (might have heard bits of it years ago) but would you call any orchestration of a chamber/piano/... piece by a different composer years/centuries later not pointless or which one's (maybe Webern with the Ricercare à 6 or some others) would have a (valid) point? :)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline MusicTurner

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1929
  • Location: Cph
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2021, 04:25:14 AM »
It's probably a commentary-like and innovative orchestration, as described by Ritter, not an attempt at naively 'improving' the original.

(( One could say the same of Mussorgsky/Ravel. But the composer's thoughts have of course been forced also to diminish a bit under such circumstances.
Holten's orchestration of Nielsen's Commotio for organ would be one case of adding new, interesting dimensions to a piece that in itself is rather symphonic; it's been described as a blessing in the form of a new Nielsen symphony in disguise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5TXkNzUh8
A case of the re-working composer interfering with a lot more of creative work, would be for instance Lukas Foss' Phorion, a collage based on quotations from a single Bach piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjad33Iah-s ))

BTW I have an old LP with Winterreise in Liszt's version for solo piano, but it's played in a very boring way, pedestrian in the wrong sense, by a Mr. Risaliti; there are probably only be better versions out there.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 04:47:21 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15847
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2021, 04:37:27 AM »
I don't know the Zender orchestration (might have heard bits of it years ago) but would you call any orchestration of a chamber/piano/... piece by a different composer years/centuries later not pointless or which one's (maybe Webern with the Ricercare à 6 or some others) would have a (valid) point? :)

Boulez and Notations is my paradigm for this sort of thing. I’ll listen again to the Zender, I enjoyed the Schumann orchestration with Uri Caine I remember.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline DaveF

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 793
  • Location: Abergavenny
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2021, 11:02:44 AM »


Star performer's name in huge letters... composer/work name in middle-sized letters... pianist's name (playing the piano is a lot more difficult than singing, it really is) in tiny letters... hmm...  I heard a story once told by one of the great and good of music criticism (I forget who, could have been Lionel Salter, Stephen Plaistow) about an interview with DFD:

Interviewer: Mr F-D, you have been the pre-eminent interpreter of German Lieder for the past thirty years...
DFD: (shakes head) Ach, nein, nein...
(Interviewer: (thinks) He's going to say, 'No that's Hermann Prey, surely'.)
DFD: ... nein, nein.  Thirty-five years.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15847
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2021, 12:23:37 PM »
Like this

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3575
  • Location: usa
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2021, 06:50:17 AM »

Offline Rinaldo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1813
  • Cara sposa, dove sei?
    • aaraaf.net
  • Location: Prague
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2021, 06:56:51 AM »


*sees fortepiano*

*runs to check this record out*


Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3575
  • Location: usa
Re: Ihre Favourite Winterreise
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2021, 07:16:52 AM »
*sees fortepiano*

*runs to check this record out*

I don’t know much about singing at all. Can someone recommend other baritones who sing lieder like Van Egmond? How would you describe his style? I like how resonant and unforced he sounds. But I’m not sure he’d be described as very passionate.
Yes, I bought this back when I was pursuing Crawford’s chamber work with Atlantis - basically because of the HIP aspect of it.