Ruggles the Sun Treader

[Kullervo]

Chillin out.
Last 3 months been posting over at the easy going amazon forum,.
Over there i get to say pretty much what i want ,and get nothing snidey nor vulgar in way of atttacks.
which was not the case last time i was here.
btw the disc Coey posted is sadly OOP, Dohnanyi/Cleveland.
The Thomas/Boston in Ruggles,  I think is not as good. I could be wrong, but my hunch says the Dohnanyi is much better.
later
Paul

I think the Ives recordings from that disc ended up as part of the two-fer with the four symphonies, but I'm not sure. The Ruggles and Crawford-Seeger, however, seem to have gone AWOL.

[Kullervo]

Here is the Dohnanyi disc with the Ives, Ruggles and Crawford-Seeger again, for anyone who missed it the first time. (I know Wurstwasser asked me for it a long time ago, but it just slipped my mind  .)

[paulb]

I think the Ives recordings from that disc ended up as part of the two-fer with the four symphonies, but I'm not sure. The Ruggles and Crawford-Seeger, however, seem to have gone AWOL.

Yes I don't even think there are used copies of the Donanhyi/Ruggles on amazon, at least last time I cked. What a  shame, short 15 minute work, took Ruggles some yrs to complete, but worth its weight in gold. + The sym is quite too as a  bonus.

I'd bet any money the Thomas drags in places , thus rendering the work less synamic that it deserves.
I have Thomas/Boston in Ives, fair to adequate.

Cory I like your sig from Nietzsche. I'm reading some Jung on Nietzsche now. Quite a  man ahead of his time, speaks about critical  issues but expresses himself in   a  difficult to grasp proverbic style.

[Guido]

Get the complete Ruggles here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15764.msg390423.html#msg390423

I've listened to the set now and while it is obviously immensely valuable, the playing is not quite top notch - there's a feeling of laxness compared to other recordings I know. But no matter, it's a great boon, especially for those items not available elsewhere (most importantly Vox Clamans in Deserto which emerges as a stunning work).

But again I am struck by the incredible mastery of Suntreader - Whilst there are certainly hints and more than hints of greatness in the preceeding (and subsequent works), that the composer could manage something of the stature and unquestionable greatness of Suntreader (something you just feel from the first bar) is completely unexpected and just floors me every time. This is Great music.

[Sergeant Rock]

But again I am struck by the incredible mastery of Suntreader - Whilst there are certainly hints and more than hints of greatness in the preceeding (and subsequent works), that the composer could manage something of the stature and unquestionable greatness of Suntreader (something you just feel from the first bar) is completely unexpected and just floors me every time. This is Great music.

I agree. It made my list in Vandermolen's thread, Six greatest American orchestral works.

Sarge

[Dax]

If Revueltas pastiched Varese, then the result would be Ruggles.

Arguably Revueltas did pastiche Varese (up to a point): the result was Sensemaya.

[Mirror Image]

I really wish Ruggles composed more! Man, Sun Treader is so wonderful. I've come to recognize good atonal music and bad atonal music. This is most definitely good atonal music. I haven't heard Men and Mountains as I don't have a recording of it. I know Dohnanyi is highly recommended. Too bad his works aren't recorded more.

[snyprrr]

I really wish Ruggles composed more! Man, Sun Treader is so wonderful. I've come to recognize good atonal music and bad atonal music. This is most definitely good atonal music. I haven't heard Men and Mountains as I don't have a recording of it. I know Dohnanyi is highly recommended. Too bad his works aren't recorded more.

We really need someone brave to just do the do,... I mean, really!! Surely NewWorld will have to do it,... or maybe Mode!!

[Mirror Image]

We really need someone brave to just do the do,... I mean, really!! Surely NewWorld will have to do it,... or maybe Mode!!

I wish MTT would do more Ruggles. My understanding is he tries to squeeze in Ruggles when the program permits it. His BSO performance of Sun-treader was simply outstanding.

[snyprrr]

I wish MTT would do more Ruggles. My understanding is he tries to squeeze in Ruggles when the program permits it. His BSO performance of Sun-treader was simply outstanding.

Technically, do we have one recording of everything? Am I thinking that one piece is missing? The CRI has Organum and Men & Mountains. M&M is also on a Vox cd. Then there's the 'rarities' cd on NewWorld, and the piano pieces on another NewWorld.

However, a new recording of at least the big tripdych(?) would certainly be appreciated. The MTT is just the thing, though.

[Mirror Image]

Technically, do we have one recording of everything? Am I thinking that one piece is missing? The CRI has Organum and Men & Mountains. M&M is also on a Vox cd. Then there's the 'rarities' cd on NewWorld, and the piano pieces on another NewWorld.

However, a new recording of at least the big tripdych(?) would certainly be appreciated. The MTT is just the thing, though.

Yes, I would just like to hear a major conductor and orchestra like MTT with the SFSO tackle Ruggles. There was a series that MTT conducted called American Mavericks that featured Ruggles's music. I'm sure some of these concerts were recorded.

[The new erato]

Seems strange Naxos hasn't done Ruggles in their American Classics series. Should think there would be more of a market than for some of the more obscure stuff they're currently doing.

[Mirror Image]

Seems strange Naxos hasn't done Ruggles in their American Classics series. Should think there would be more of a market than for some of the more obscure stuff they're currently doing.

Good point. I wonder who they'd get to conduct the orchestral works? Schwarz?

[The new erato]

Perhaps Harry could force them to record Ruggles. I mean, if he threatened to dump his collection on the used market the market for new CDs would collapse instantly.

[snyprrr]

Seems strange Naxos hasn't done Ruggles in their American Classics series. Should think there would be more of a market than for some of the more obscure stuff they're currently doing.

But of course!! Now I see it!

That does seem likely.

[snyprrr]

Someone change the Thread Title to Buggles for Ruggles?

[snyprrr]

Have been listeing to a lot of Ives recently, and through this my attention has been turned to Ruggles too. For those who do not know he completed a tiny but perfectly formed oevre of nine completed and surviving works. His works are searingly intense, atonal, dramatic, very personal, moving. He worked painfully slowly, not having had any formal musical training, and worked at the piano, essentially by trial and error - playing a chord, listening, then correcting and trying again. He used to sit at the piano with Ives, play one of his soaring atonal melodies and shout "doesn't that twist yer guts!!"

Sun Treader (1926-31) is a truly astonishing work - at sixteen minutes long it is easily Ruggles' longest work, and it contains an intensity of expression and emotion that is of quite a rare order. Its not easy on the ear (deliberately so!), but it is utterly involving, and has a powerful beauty that is all its own. It's the apex of his achievement and for anyone even remotely interested in contemporary music it is surely a must.

Are there any good books on his life?

I've heard Evocations (4 chants for piano), Portals, Angels, Toys, some early songs, Sun-Treader and Organum on piano. I am yet to hear Men and Mountains, Vox clamans in deserto and Organum for orchestra and Exaltation... such a pity that Michael Tilson Thomas' complete works LPs have not been reissued.

Someone change the Thread Title to Buggles for Ruggles?

[The new erato]

According to Alex Ross:

"Good news from Other Minds: early next year they're reissuing Michael Tilson Thomas's survey of the works of Carl Ruggles, a classic two-LP set that never appeared on CD.... "

http://www.otherminds.org/

[snyprrr]

According to Alex Ross:

"Good news from Other Minds: early next year they're reissuing Michael Tilson Thomas's survey of the works of Carl Ruggles, a classic two-LP set that never appeared on CD.... "

http://www.otherminds.org/

Grrrrrrreat!!!

[Drasko]

Coming out soon, available for pre-order.

[asin]B007C7FFJA[/asin]