Composers whose legacy will grow

Started by Kullervo, August 26, 2007, 06:05:25 AM

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paul

Morton Feldman. To put it in his own words, "for some reason, they don't want to give it to me." But I think that eventually they will.

Kullervo

Quote from: edward on August 26, 2007, 02:42:17 PM
I wouldn't expect any to become mainstream, but they have pretty much no profile right now (at least compared to the Boulezes and Stockhausens of the world) and I don't think that'll remain the case.

I don't think the profile of the Boulezes and Stockhausens will remain the same either. Perhaps we should relegate that (well, Stockhausen) to a "Composers whose legacy will be diminished" thread, or perhaps I am being too presumptuous.


Catison

There is no doubt that John Adams' music will continue to be an influence.  I think Steve Reich will have the favor of the strict minimalists, and early Glass will be played into the near future while his latest stuff becomes a footnote.

The Finns and the Nordic region are producing some of the best composers alive today.  Many of them I am sure will last.  Lindberg, Salonen, Part, Norgard, etc.

The composers I am unsure about are the Re-romantic sort-of-modernist composers from the late seventies and eighties like Zwilich, Tower, and Harbison.  Their sound has a generic feel to it that becomes uninteresting very quickly.

A composer I hope gets his due is Walter Piston.  Why his symphonies are not played as often, I have no idea.
-Brett

Kullervo

Quote from: Catison on August 26, 2007, 08:10:36 PM
There is no doubt that John Adams' music will continue to be an influence.  I think Steve Reich will have the favor of the strict minimalists, and early Glass will be played into the near future while his latest stuff becomes a footnote.

The Finns and the Nordic region are producing some of the best composers alive today.  Many of them I am sure will last.  Lindberg, Salonen, Part, Norgard, etc.

The composers I am unsure about are the Re-romantic sort-of-modernist composers from the late seventies and eighties like Zwilich, Tower, and Harbison.  Their sound has a generic feel to it that becomes uninteresting very quickly.

A composer I hope gets his due is Walter Piston.  Why his symphonies are not played as often, I have no idea.

Quick — three works that should convince me of Adams's greatness. Go!  ;D

sound67

Quote from: Haffner on August 26, 2007, 09:54:43 AM
I like Dr. Karl.

For a moment there I thought you were referring to Karl Jenkins.  :o



His reputation certainly is immense already.  0:)
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

val

I believe that Dutilleux, Berio, Ligeti, Boulez will be listened as great classics in less than 100 years. Regarding younger composers, I think it is too soon to know. I admire Hugues Dufourt (born in 1943) and Brian Ferneyhough (also born in 1943) but I only know some of their works, so I cannot have a global perspective over them.

bhodges

Quote from: Corey on August 26, 2007, 08:14:54 PM
Quick — three works that should convince me of Adams's greatness. Go!  ;D

Chamber Symphony (1992)
Road Movies (1995, for violin and piano)
The Dharma at Big Sur (2003, for electric violin and orchestra)

--Bruce

Maciek

#28
I'm a bit surprised to see a few composers I thought already were in the strict canon named here...?

Like Ligeti, Lutoslawski, Dutilleux, Ferneyhough, Scelsi, Nono, Feldman, Berio (the last two I'm not particularly fond of but I have an indelible sense of their immense importance). And yes, definitely Norgard. Not to mention Schnittke or Schoenberg.

I wonder, is my perspective somehow skewed because I listen mostly to 20th and 21st century music? ;)

I'm not sure about Rautavaara or Adams. Or even Stockhausen for that matter. But I'm no prophet. I suspect Pendercki's popularity might decline but at least I hope Dobrowolski's will rise. I'm 100% certain that Paweł Szymański's profile is going to rise - what he's been doing for decades now is new and original - but I'm not betting whether he'll ever become a "classic". Oh dear, look at that rant - but isn't this discussion a bit meaningless, on the whole? ;)

Kullervo

Quote from: Maciek on August 27, 2007, 10:03:43 AM
but isn't this discussion a bit meaningless, on the whole? ;)

No, it's for me to find out which composers you (GMGers) think will have a lasting impact on music. :)

longears

Quote from: Corey on August 26, 2007, 08:14:54 PM
Quick — three works that should convince me of Adams's greatness. Go!  ;D
Quote from: bhodges on August 27, 2007, 06:47:35 AM
Chamber Symphony (1992)
Road Movies (1995, for violin and piano)
The Dharma at Big Sur (2003, for electric violin and orchestra)

--Bruce
Fine choices, Bruce.  How about:

Naïve & Sentimental Music 1998
El Niño 2000
Violin Concerto 1993

Al Moritz

Quote from: Corey on August 26, 2007, 02:55:45 PM
I don't think the profile of the Boulezes and Stockhausens will remain the same either. Perhaps we should relegate that (well, Stockhausen) to a "Composers whose legacy will be diminished" thread, or perhaps I am being too presumptuous.

Could you please elaborate why you think this is so?

Mark

I keep hearing good things being said about the chap whose Naxos biog I'm pasting below:

AHO, KALEVI (b 1949)

Kalevi Aho, one of Finland’s foremost contemporary composers, was born in Forssa in southern Finland on 9th March 1949. He commenced violin studies in his home town at the age of ten, and his first compositions also date from this time. When he went to university (1968) Aho studied  the violin and composition at the Sibelius Academy in Helsinki; his composition teacher was  Einojuhani Rautavaara.

After graduating as a composer (1971) Aho continued his studies in Berlin (1971-72) as a pupil of Boris Blacher at the Staatliche Hochschule für Musik und darstellende Kunst. From 1974 until 1988 he was a lecturer in musicology at Helsinki University, and from 1988 until 1993 he was a professor of composition at the Sibelius Academy. Since the autumn of 1993 he has worked in Helsinki as a freelance composer, and in 1994 he was awarded a fifteen-year grant from the Finnish state.

The central focus of Aho’s work consists of large-scale orchestral, chamber and vocal works: his output includes four operas (Avain [The Key; 1977-78], Hyönteiselämää [Insect Life; 1985-87], Salaisuuksien kirja [The Book of Secrets; 1998] and Ennen kuin me kaikki olemme hukkuneet [Before we are all Drowned; 1995/1999]), thirteen symphonies (1969-2003), three chamber symphonies for string orchestra, twelve concertos (for violin, cello, flute, tuba, bassoon, contrabassoon, double bass, clarinet, viola, two for piano and a double concerto for two cellos and orchestra), other orchestral and vocal music and a large amount of music for chamber ensembles and solo instruments. He has also made a number of arrangements and orchestrations of works by other composers. The most important of these is the completion of Uuno Klami’s unfinished ballet Pyörteitä (Whirls): Aho has orchestrated the ballet’s first act and composed the missing third act, with the concert title of Symphonic Dances. Since 1992 Aho has been composer-in-residence of the Lahti Symphony Orchestra.

Aho has also gained a reputation as an assiduous writer on music and columnist. All in all, his literary output currently runs to more than 500 essays, presentations, columns and other writings.

Kalevi Aho has occupied a number of important positions in Finnish cultural life and has been received many international and Finnish prizes for his production.

Kullervo

#33
Quote from: Al Moritz on August 30, 2007, 07:54:08 AM
Could you please elaborate why you think this is so?

I don't think I'm really knowledgeable enough to say why exactly I think so (perhaps I shouldn't have said anything). I just don't think his music "carries" very well. From his experiments in "intuitive" music, to his over-the-top stunts like his LICHT cycle and the Helicopter String Quartet — his works seem too difficult (not to mention expensive) to reproduce. Notice how nearly every performance of his work is supervised by Stockhausen himself. Who will bother with it after he's gone?

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: James on August 30, 2007, 08:26:37 AM
Stockhausen, Boulez, Berio, Nono, Ligeti, Birtwistle, Carter & others...these composers names will always remain, they are important in the development of music in the 2nd half of the 20th century whether you like their works or not...just like Stravinsky, Bartok, Schoenberg-Berg-Webern, Ives etc were key in the development of music for the first half of the century...

I would agree with most of that list (and by implication, disagree with a number of other candidates already proposed). The problem is, are people really distinguishing "composers whose legacy will grow" from "composers I particularly like"? I'm not sure I can make such a distinction myself, especially as we have no idea how aesthetic standards will develop in the next 50-100 years. Any number of unforeseen factors can and probably will affect the "legacy" of classical music to come. (I'd argue that has no factor has had a more important impact on attitudes towards music in the past century than the phonograph record or CD ; conceivably, the Internet will play an equally important role in the century to come.)

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: greg on August 26, 2007, 09:58:43 AM
me too!
i've seen the future............

and good things are in store for Mr.Henning  8)

Hear here!
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

bhodges

Quote from: longears on August 27, 2007, 06:38:42 PM
Fine choices, Bruce.  How about:

Naïve & Sentimental Music 1998
El Niño 2000
Violin Concerto 1993

Yes, yes, yes - those are great choices, too.  He has developed quite a body of work! 

--Bruce

bhodges

Quote from: Corey on August 30, 2007, 08:17:20 AM
I don't think I'm really knowledgeable enough to say why exactly I think so (perhaps I shouldn't have said anything). I just don't think his music "carries" very well. From his experiments in "intuitive" music, to his over-the-top stunts like his LICHT cycle and the Helicopter String Quartet — his works seem too difficult (not to mention expensive) to reproduce. Notice how nearly every performance of his work is supervised by Stockhausen himself. Who will bother with it after he's gone?

Yes, I agree: "difficult" and "expensive" don't augur well for immortality.  But then, who knows?  As Larry implies in his comments about the unpredictability of aesthetic standards down the road, additional technological developments will no doubt change the landscape.  Imagine someone developing a cheaper, quieter helicopter, that somehow blossoms into a huge mass transit alternative...and then...  (I'm only half-joking!)

Also true: that composers' legacies have to be considered, and unless there is a "Stockhausen Trust" to ensure that his instructions are carried out in the way that he wants, the works may not be performed all that much.  But I think of Boulez and Stockhausen, the former has a superstar conducting career that will only continue to bolster his compositional career, something the latter doesn't really have.  I suspect Stockhausen will continue to be off the radar for many people for this reason alone.

And I do think that list James posted is the core of a list that will endure historically, although it really is difficult to predict these things.

Interesting discussion...

--Bruce

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: bhodges on August 30, 2007, 09:18:04 AM
Yes, I agree: "difficult" and "expensive" don't augur well for immortality.

But "difficult" in the past has augured well. It's the more difficult music of the past - which includes Mozart and Beethoven, Brahms and Wagner - that has survived over their simpler counterparts. (Did someone say "Dittersdorf"?)

karlhenning

Surfersdirt is more compex than most of you think! Ha-ha-ha!  8)