Author Topic: Classical music burnout?  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Classical music burnout?
« on: October 08, 2021, 07:51:28 AM »
Some time ago I realised while reading the "Favorite The Archduke Trio recording" thread, that

[1] I don't have any recording of the work
[2] I had probably never even heard the piece!

So, I listened to the work in Spotify. I asked myself "Does this music make me excited?" and my answer was "Not really, no."  This is not to say Beethoven wrote it badly, on the contrary it is probably a masterpiece in its genre, but that doesn't mean I get excited because of it. This has been my struggle for the last 20 years. When I discovered classical music around 1996/7, I was really excited to explore it for the next 5 years or so, but after having discovered most of my favorites classical music has become less exciting as a whole and it is more about some stuff being able to get me excited occationally. I don't hate or dislike anything more. It is just that I like it less. It is "just" enjoyable music" rather than something extremely interesting and mindblowing.

All of this means I can easily live without having a recording of The Archduke Trio. I have Beethoven's Op. 70 Nos. 1-2 Trios on Naxos and that's enough for me. Not having anything else makes that Naxos CD more valuable for me. It's all I have. It would be even more valuable if it was my only Piano Trio CD, but it isn't. I have several Piano Trios by other composers.

I am amazed by how much enthusiams people here have after decades of intense listening of classical music. Some people here have listened to classical music before CDs existed and still come out as excited as someone who discovered classical music two months ago! Wow!

I feel classical music burnout. I have heard too much and there is too much to hear. I have tries different approaches to classical music in order to make it more exiting, but with slim results. One of the best things to make me somewhat excited in the recent years has been contemporary classical music, the likes of David Maslanka, Ned Rorem, Margaret Brouwer, Salvatore Di Vittorio, Valentin Silvestrov etc.

I'm also interested of music theory, to know how J. S. Bach or Mozart wrote their music. Currently I am educating myself watching Dr. Jacob Gran's videos on youtube. It is interesting how young Schubert had to learn counterpoint from Salieri for example.  $:)

What life has teached me is that things are not always exciting forever. They might be for a while and then they aren't. When exciting things become less exciting, it is as if being robbed, except nobody committed a crime. I feel I have bought too much classical music already, even if my collection is modest compared to many others in here. It is even possible that coming to this board kind of made me confused of what classical music means to me and what is MY way of enjoying it. Ideas such owning six cycles of Mahler's Symphonies! Okay, but Mahler's music means almost nothing to me! Sorry! It doesn't speak to me. I find it un-welcoming, cold, weird and ridiculously "waltzy". Why should I have even one cycle? Let me enjoy Alessandro Scarlatti's music instead! Or Salvatore Di Vittorio! They do speak to me...  :P

Instead of trying to be like others (to "fit in"), I need to find myself again. The dude that heard Enigma Variations on radio in 1996 and dropped his jaw on the floor. That is who I am. I have finally understood this. I am an INTJ/P meaning I am a rare bird.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2021, 07:59:26 AM »
I can sympathize with you in a way, Poju. I think it's important to understand that you'll never hear it all and there's certainly no reason why one should feel that they should. It's not going to happen. I've been enthusiastic about music since I was a teenager and nothing much has changed! I do believe that people can reach a point where they begin to get burned out and when this happens it's best to find other interests to keep you occupied until you're ready to come back to music. For example, aside from music obviously, I love to read, watch movies, study art and play video games. It's always a great thing to have other interests, but I always return to music and seem to be rather invigorated after I take a break from it.
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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2021, 01:07:16 PM »
I asked myself "Does this music make me excited?" and my answer was "Not really, no." 

Quote
I have Beethoven's Op. 70 Nos. 1-2 Trios on Naxos and that's enough for me. Not having anything else makes that Naxos CD more valuable for me. It's all I have. It would be even more valuable if it was my only Piano Trio CD, but it isn't. I have several Piano Trios by other composers.

Did you read the other posts on the thread?  Several posters said they didn't care that much for Archduke and prefer the Op 70 works just like you.  This doesn't seem like the cause for an existential crisis.


Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2021, 04:28:02 PM »
Did you read the other posts on the thread? Several posters said they didn't care that much for Archduke and prefer the Op 70 works just like you.  This doesn't seem like the cause for an existential crisis.

The Archduke Trio is just one work and it certainly alone hasn't caused any existential crisis, more like it happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back. This thing has been cumulating for years. As for the Op. 70 works, I quite like the E flat Major one.  0:)

I can sympathize with you in a way, Poju. I think it's important to understand that you'll never hear it all and there's certainly no reason why one should feel that they should. It's not going to happen. I've been enthusiastic about music since I was a teenager and nothing much has changed! I do believe that people can reach a point where they begin to get burned out and when this happens it's best to find other interests to keep you occupied until you're ready to come back to music. For example, aside from music obviously, I love to read, watch movies, study art and play video games. It's always a great thing to have other interests, but I always return to music and seem to be rather invigorated after I take a break from it.
 

I responded to this, but maybe I forgot to press [Post]  :P

In short, if I'm not into classical music, I easily find some other music genres to enjoy.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 04:30:18 PM by 71 dB »
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Offline amw

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2021, 08:53:37 PM »
Some time ago I realised while reading the "Favorite The Archduke Trio recording" thread, that

[1] I don't have any recording of the work
[2] I had probably never even heard the piece!

So, I listened to the work in Spotify. I asked myself "Does this music make me excited?" and my answer was "Not really, no." 
[...]
All of this means I can easily live without having a recording of The Archduke Trio. I have Beethoven's Op. 70 Nos. 1-2 Trios on Naxos and that's enough for me.
This is totally irrelevant to the main point of your thread, but when I was significantly younger, I was burned out on the early Beethoven trios, listened to the "Archduke" once and felt it was too long and boring, and in consequence had only one Beethoven trio recording, which was that same CD of Op. 70 Nos. 1 & 2 on Naxos (which I assume is the Xyrion Trio). Like you I also enjoyed Op. 70 no. 2 much more than Op. 70 no. 1, although always found the finale of the latter to be charming. The CD eventually got misplaced somehow leaving me with an empty CD case, a frequent occurrence back in the days when I used CDs a lot, but I still have a copy of that recording and revisit it frequently.

I was also perfectly satisfied with that for years and didn't feel the need to explore Beethoven in any more detail; I had other musical interests (all of these in my case were classical). In my case things changed when I was at university and took several courses on Beethoven to satisfy credits requirements. These got me interested in the piano sonatas and late string quartets in particular, and from extensive study of those, I eventually developed the desire to hear the Beethoven trios again, and so on.

I think it's fine to not be interested in any classical music, or any music of another particular genre that one used to like, for a long period of time. I wouldn't even say it's particularly unusual, and is something that happens to everyone I know at various times. One can feel sad and unsatisfied with life as a result of burning out of a particular interest, but when that happens it's usually a good idea to find another interest, even something completely unrelated, such as a particular fandom to be involved with. (The "artistic value" of classical music and e.g. Star Wars fanfic may be very different,  but they may have equal effect for some people in terms of emotional response.) However, if you're losing interest in everything and can't find anything new that holds your attention or interest, that's more likely a sign of depression or a similar condition (e.g., untreated ADHD).
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 08:55:27 PM by amw »

Offline LKB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2021, 12:36:49 AM »
Try something unfamiliar.

Try something you never enjoyed in the past ( people change and grow, it happened to me with Shostakovich ).

Try avoiding all music, and immersing yourself in another activity, e.g. reading etc.

Try... whatever. And good luck!

  ;),

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2021, 02:02:19 AM »
I never kept track of this as most of my listening was and is on CDs and the little "virtual" or online listening I do, is untracked, but I think that my listening time could have been as high as six or more hours per day (sometimes in the background) and as low as a few hours per week.
(On some (hiking) holidays/trips without music I was usually really happy to listen to music again after a week or two).
There is so much classical music that I go for years without listening to favorite works (I am not sure when I last listened to the b minor mass, could be 3 years or more and then it might also have been one half). And although I listen to very little "old" (pre 1600) music and even less "avantgarde" (and also very little non-classical), I usually find enough diversity between late renaissance and the mid-20th century not to get bored or burned out.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
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Against the drums of dawn.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2021, 02:37:59 AM »
This is totally irrelevant to the main point of your thread, but when I was significantly younger, I was burned out on the early Beethoven trios, listened to the "Archduke" once and felt it was too long and boring, and in consequence had only one Beethoven trio recording, which was that same CD of Op. 70 Nos. 1 & 2 on Naxos (which I assume is the Xyrion Trio). Like you I also enjoyed Op. 70 no. 2 much more than Op. 70 no. 1, although always found the finale of the latter to be charming. The CD eventually got misplaced somehow leaving me with an empty CD case, a frequent occurrence back in the days when I used CDs a lot, but I still have a copy of that recording and revisit it frequently.

My Naxos CD is an earlier release by Stuttgart Piano Trio.

I was also perfectly satisfied with that for years and didn't feel the need to explore Beethoven in any more detail; I had other musical interests (all of these in my case were classical). In my case things changed when I was at university and took several courses on Beethoven to satisfy credits requirements. These got me interested in the piano sonatas and late string quartets in particular, and from extensive study of those, I eventually developed the desire to hear the Beethoven trios again, and so on.

The String Quartets where the first thing I liked from Beethoven. I feel somehow his music language works best in that format. I also like his Violin Sonatas quite a lot. It took me a very long time to appreciate Beethoven's Piano Sonatas and I still don't care much about the "middle" ones. The early ones are beautiful and charming. The late ones are epic. The middle ones are half-charming and half-epic which doesn't work well for me.

I think it's fine to not be interested in any classical music, or any music of another particular genre that one used to like, for a long period of time. I wouldn't even say it's particularly unusual, and is something that happens to everyone I know at various times. One can feel sad and unsatisfied with life as a result of burning out of a particular interest, but when that happens it's usually a good idea to find another interest, even something completely unrelated, such as a particular fandom to be involved with. (The "artistic value" of classical music and e.g. Star Wars fanfic may be very different,  but they may have equal effect for some people in terms of emotional response.) However, if you're losing interest in everything and can't find anything new that holds your attention or interest, that's more likely a sign of depression or a similar condition (e.g., untreated ADHD).

Having interests is not the problem, almost the contrary! It is just that classical music felt in the beginning something that will retain is interest and for many it seems to be the case.

My attitude toward classical music iused to be that I concentrate on the few composers and works that I am interested of. After coming here I started feeling "social pressure" to be interested of everything. Last year I explored Atterberg just because people talked about him a lot. I felt so annoyed about not knowing anything about this composers while others discussed about him. Sure, it was interesting to listen to this composer on Spotify, but it felt "heavy", a burden I have to do to not feel annoyed. So different from year 1997 when I explored composers super-excited because a work from them I had heard on radio dropped my jaw! I miss that way of doing things. So this is not about Beethoven or his Piano Sonatas. This is about more about how the World has changed and how I have changed with it. Back in 1997 I did not interact with other people about classical music online and somehow I was happier and I had a better inner balance. I "knew" what I was doing and it felt right.
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Offline LKB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2021, 03:00:14 AM »
As a teenage percussionist, my normal preferred activity was listening to orchestral music. If l wasn't working or at school or with the family, l was on my bed, lights off, listening hard and memorizing. I did this at every opportunity into early adulthood, eight hours a day, for over a decade.

Decades later, l still have hundreds of hours of classical music memorized. I have never experienced any degree of burnout, possibly because I've since discovered new genres to explore. In the late '80's l discovered Leon Redone, Elton John, The Doors, and rediscovered The Beatles. Twenty years ago l was exploring folk and bluegrass. About six years ago, l became interested in Roy Orbison's work, and in Queen.

And even within classical music, there are still gaps in my knowledge waiting to be filled. So l don't really expect any sort of burnout problem as such, since no music or genre ( save hip-hop ) will be avoided.

Lots of music still to discover, and only my own laziness and time can impede the learning process.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2021, 03:33:25 AM »
I never kept track of this as most of my listening was and is on CDs and the little "virtual" or online listening I do, is untracked, but I think that my listening time could have been as high as six or more hours per day (sometimes in the background) and as low as a few hours per week.
In 1997 I estimate of having listened to classical music almost 5000 hours, because I was mostly studying home (no need to be at the university a lot) and I had my classical radio playing all day long at least in the background. In fact one of the main reasons I got into classical music is that I thought it might be good background music while studying and I had read somewhere that listening to classical music improves brain activity. It worked quite well, because they played string serenades -type of relaxing classical music a lot.

(On some (hiking) holidays/trips without music I was usually really happy to listen to music again after a week or two).

I had a two weeks pause on music listening altogether in 2018 when my mother passed away. Normally I listen to music every day, maybe not classical but something. However, nowadays 15 minutes can be enough and I think I rarely listen to music more than 3 hours a day.

There is so much classical music that I go for years without listening to favorite works (I am not sure when I last listened to the b minor mass, could be 3 years or more and then it might also have been one half). And although I listen to very little "old" (pre 1600) music and even less "avantgarde" (and also very little non-classical), I usually find enough diversity between late renaissance and the mid-20th century not to get bored or burned out.

I have lost track of what classical CDs I have. If I pull out a random CD from my shelf changes are I am surprised I have that CD and I am asking myself why am I not listening to all of these CDs? 25 years ago I had just a few classical music CDs and I was not able to imagine the situation where I am today. It has been a gradual change, CD by CD, year by year. Same has happened with Blu-ray. When I bought my HDTV and Blu-ray-player in 2011 and I had a couple of Blu-rays it felt like it will take ages to collect a decent Blu-ray collection that replaces my DVD collection, but now 10 years later I have Blu-rays everywhere. Where did all of them come from?  ;D

My consumption of pre-1600 music is also very limited, but I listen to pre-Bach baroque a lot! I am not into mid-20th century classical music that much (12-tone idiom and serialism tends to make it cold for me), but I am pleasantly surprised about newer contemporary music which is often surprisingly warm and tonal, but also sounds fresh. My rule is that if the composer is born in 1930 or later, the music is probably "modern" enough for me, but of course there can be exceptions (Ned Rorem, 1923). I think the newer classical music is overlooked, not known by the public.

Bach's B Minor Mass is one of my favorite works by Bach, my favorite composer just below Elgar, but I haven't listened to it in years! Could be even 10 years! One explanation for this crazy fact is the last decade has been very non-classical period for me. Sometimes I even feel I am actually a simple-minded dude who enjoys bubble-gum pop and electronic dance music and only thinks being smart enough to be a cultivated classical music listener. That's one reason why I try to get back into classical music the way I used to be in late 90's, but it is not easy. Forcing myself to enjoy classical music makes me enjoy it even less.  :P
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2021, 03:56:56 AM »
So l don't really expect any sort of burnout problem as such, since no music or genre ( save hip-hop ) will be avoided.

I'm afraid there are a lot more music genres to abvoid that that.  ;D

I don't care about hip-hop, but I do like British Hip-House, that combines House music and Hip-Hop and was a short-lived sub-genre in late 80's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBQrX8ef3Wg
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2021, 09:00:12 AM »
Time and again, Poju, you make a mountain out of a molehill.

So, you have never heard the Archduke Trio, nor do you have any recording of it. Okay, so what? Why is that even a problem for you? You are under no obligation to have heard it, nor to hear it in the future. If you feel like hearing it, Youtube is your friend. If you like it, fine. If you don't like it, just turn it off and it's just as fine. If you don't feel like hearing it at all, then just don't. It's that simple.

Fer Chrissake, man --- just listen to whatever gives you pleasure and ignore everything else,

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"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part."
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2021, 09:06:13 AM »
My attitude toward classical music iused to be that I concentrate on the few composers and works that I am interested of.

Get back to that attitude immediately --- and stick to it!

"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part."
 --- Claude Debussy

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2021, 04:01:38 PM »
So, you have never heard the Archduke Trio

Well, now I have, but whatever. It's funny how people make molehills out of me making molehills of something. Ironic.  ;D
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2021, 07:05:53 PM »
Time and again, Poju, you make a mountain out of a molehill.

So, you have never heard the Archduke Trio, nor do you have any recording of it. Okay, so what? Why is that even a problem for you? You are under no obligation to have heard it, nor to hear it in the future. If you feel like hearing it, Youtube is your friend. If you like it, fine. If you don't like it, just turn it off and it's just as fine. If you don't feel like hearing it at all, then just don't. It's that simple.

Fer Chrissake, man --- just listen to whatever gives you pleasure and ignore everything else,

“Always stick to your likings - there are profound reasons for them”  - Frederick Delius

Well said, Andrei. I like Poju a lot and think he's a nice guy, but he does seem worried a bit too much by what everyone else is doing or thinking instead of focusing on what is important to him. A person will never derive any pleasure from anything if they don't listen to their own gut and use their own ears to decide what they like/don't like. A person must forge their own path.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 01:30:33 AM »
Well said, Andrei. I like Poju a lot and think he's a nice guy, but he does seem worried a bit too much by what everyone else is doing or thinking instead of focusing on what is important to him. A person will never derive any pleasure from anything if they don't listen to their own gut and use their own ears to decide what they like/don't like.
Not denying this and I know this, but these things are easier said than done. My hightly intuitive mind comes up with intuitive predictions about the future and feeds my inferior cognitive function (feelings) with them and then my feelings feed my intuition and there is a loop that I have come aware of only recently and I am learning how to mentally break such loops of negative/sad thoughts. So, in practice these can be complex mental exercises.

A person must forge their own path.

Yeah, but forging my own path leads ot isolation. When you are walking different path from others you are alone. So should I communicate with othher human being as little as possible in order to be able to concentrate on forging my own path? It is easy when your personality type is a common one or your social skills are high (extroverts), but I am really introverted and my personality type is rare. These things alone make socializing with other people very challenging. Add forging of your own path and the result is almost complete isolation.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2021, 06:06:15 AM »
Not denying this and I know this, but these things are easier said than done. My hightly intuitive mind comes up with intuitive predictions about the future and feeds my inferior cognitive function (feelings) with them and then my feelings feed my intuition and there is a loop that I have come aware of only recently and I am learning how to mentally break such loops of negative/sad thoughts. So, in practice these can be complex mental exercises.

Yeah, but forging my own path leads to isolation. When you are walking different path from others you are alone. So should I communicate with other human being as little as possible in order to be able to concentrate on forging my own path? It is easy when your personality type is a common one or your social skills are high (extroverts), but I am really introverted and my personality type is rare. These things alone make socializing with other people very challenging. Add forging of your own path and the result is almost complete isolation.

But forging your own path is an isolated one. There isn't one person who can do the work for you, because no one knows what you like but yourself. I will say that it'd be nice if you stop saying you have a rare personality type. No one really gives a damn about any of this kind of stuff, because, ultimately, it means nothing. I'm an introvert, too, but I don't let it hinder me to the point where I can't socialize when I need to. I think you should stop making excuses for yourself and learn that any kind of change in your life will only happen because of you and you're in control of this change more than you realize. It's up to you to fall to pieces or to keep it together.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 06:11:09 AM by Mirror Image »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2021, 07:03:30 AM »
But forging your own path is an isolated one. There isn't one person who can do the work for you, because no one knows what you like but yourself. I will say that it'd be nice if you stop saying you have a rare personality type. No one really gives a damn about any of this kind of stuff, because, ultimately, it means nothing. I'm an introvert, too, but I don't let it hinder me to the point where I can't socialize when I need to. I think you should stop making excuses for yourself and learn that any kind of change in your life will only happen because of you and you're in control of this change more than you realize. It's up to you to fall to pieces or to keep it together.

All of this "change your life" is bullshit. It only works for people who have what it takes to change things. Money. Looks. Luck. Talent. Motivation. Connections and so on. If it was possible for everybody then everybody would do it, of course! Thanks to learning about these personality types I don't need to blame myself anymore because I understand better where my struggles originate from. That's why I keep saying these things. It is my tool to get rid of self-pity and to feel better about myself. I have my strengths and if the World around doesn't understand me or doesn't appreciate me for what I am then it is the World to blame, not me. Finally after decades of questioning what is wrong with me I know the truth: Nothing. I am just misunderstood.

You might be an introvert like I am, but there are different types of introverts (it is a spectrum), some having good social skills for example. That's why your struggles are not necessorily the same as my struggles are and based on how we communicate with each other we don't understand each other that much.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Mirror Image

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    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2021, 07:59:33 AM »
All of this "change your life" is bullshit. It only works for people who have what it takes to change things. Money. Looks. Luck. Talent. Motivation. Connections and so on. If it was possible for everybody then everybody would do it, of course! Thanks to learning about these personality types I don't need to blame myself anymore because I understand better where my struggles originate from. That's why I keep saying these things. It is my tool to get rid of self-pity and to feel better about myself. I have my strengths and if the World around doesn't understand me or doesn't appreciate me for what I am then it is the World to blame, not me. Finally after decades of questioning what is wrong with me I know the truth: Nothing. I am just misunderstood.

You might be an introvert like I am, but there are different types of introverts (it is a spectrum), some having good social skills for example. That's why your struggles are not necessarily the same as my struggles are and based on how we communicate with each other we don't understand each other that much.

It's only bullshit, because you have chosen to make it this way for yourself. I honestly believe that your problems stem from a belief that you're inferior or "not good enough" and I personally think this is bullshit. Stop doubting yourself. You're responsible for your own happiness and no amount of reading about personality types is going to help you nor is anyone else. It seems like to me you're only concerned about what you have to say and don't give a rat's ass what anyone else says.
"Competitions are for horses. Not artists." - Béla Bartók

Offline 71 dB

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    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Classical music burnout?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2021, 08:45:54 AM »
It's only bullshit, because you have chosen to make it this way for yourself. I honestly believe that your problems stem from a belief that you're inferior or "not good enough" and I personally think this is bullshit. Stop doubting yourself. You're responsible for your own happiness and no amount of reading about personality types is going to help you nor is anyone else. It seems like to me you're only concerned about what you have to say and don't give a rat's ass what anyone else says.

Yes, up until year ago or so I had inferiority complex, because I wasn't familiar with personality types and how they make us so different in fundamental ways (how the brain is structured). Now that I have sorted out the origin of the struggles I am free of false beliefs of inferiority, but that doesn't mean my life changes over night. I need to learn to think differently and feel differently. Old habits die slowly... ...but at least I have found the path.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"