Quiz: Mystery scores

Started by Sean, August 27, 2007, 06:49:47 AM

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Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2007, 01:58:01 PM
I'm going to say that Larry's 31/22 is the prelude to the second scene of Delius's A Village Romeo and Juliet. I finally managed to catch on to Larry's syphilis Larry's clue about two composers having suffered from the same disease was what led me there - Wolf had syphilis; so did Delius, who also has American elements to his career (another Larry clue). I don't know this work, but 31/22 looks fairly Delian, and at least is fairly obviously English; listening to the Amazon sample I found I wasn't entirely sure until the last few seconds, where that opening flute figure returns.

For some reason I never imagined Larry owning a Delius score, mind you...

Larry owns a few Delius scores. It's unjust of me to say how rotten Delius is if I've never heard any Delius. This piece, however, which is not from A Village Romeo and Juliet (unless he used the same material over again - which, come to think of it, could be said of his entire boring career), but is one of the few Delius pieces I can more or less tolerate.  :D

It looks like one more of mine has to be guessed, and I'm kind of surprised so many have missed the mark on this one.

lukeottevanger

Is it Goldmark - Rustic Wedding Symphony?

lukeottevanger

#402
I don't suppose it can be if only one of the three was from an opera, because the implication of your last post is that the Delius isn't...

and there I was spending ages sifting the evidence.....

That rising melody which opens your Delius, whatever piece it is, is [almost] certainly in the Village R+J prelude I listened to....or maybe I was listening too hard for it. Listen and tell me if I'm mad! - towards the end, I thought.

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2007, 02:47:57 PM
Is it Goldmark - Rustic Wedding Symphony?

Finally! how did you get it?

Larry Rinkel

#404
Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2007, 02:51:46 PM
I don't suppose it can be if only one of the three was from an opera, because the implication of your last post is that the Delius isn't...

and there I was spending ages sifting the evidence.....

That rising melody which opens your Delius, whatever piece it is, is [almost] certainly in the Village R+J prelude I listened to....or maybe I was listening too hard for it. Listen and tell me if I'm mad! - towards the end, I thought.

It is Delius, and it is from an opera.

Or perhaps more precisely, it is based by Delius on material from an opera. Perhaps I didn't have that straight.

Maciek

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 04, 2007, 02:46:19 PM
It looks like one more of mine has to be guessed, and I'm kind of surprised so many have missed the mark on this one.

FWIW, I heard my first ever Delius piece last week. And it wasn't an opera (at least not that I'm aware of ;D)...

(OK, probably, I've heard Delius before that but I don't remember.)

lukeottevanger

#406
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 04, 2007, 03:00:29 PM
Finally! how did you get it?

Bear in mind I've never heard the piece and only seen chamber scores by the composer....

I sifted around your clues a little - a lot! - especially the bits about Brahms, Beecham (I worked him out, via Delius, from another of your clues) and the composer being Jewish. Wiki was - for once - quite a lot of help. I follwed a red herring thinking the music was French (led astray by the edition) until I saw the 'sehr zart'.

One thing confused me a little - your clue which said

QuoteTwo of the composers lived during the same highly partisan period in musical history, but one managed to stay friendly to both sides while the other was quite rabidly partisan.

I assume this refers to Wolf (rabidly partisan beyond all doubt) and Goldmark (Wiki quotes Liebermann: "His writing is distinctive for his even-handed promotion of both Brahms and Wagner, at a time when audiences (and most critics) were solidly in one composer's camp or the other and viewed those on the opposing side with undisguised hostility.") - but Goldmark (b.1830) was 30 years older than Wolf (b.1860), whereas Delius (b.1862) was only two years Wolf's junior - and yet Delius was as rabidly partisan as Wolf, AFAIK.

Anyway, got there in the end.

***

So, the Delius is opera-derived....the Irmelin prelude?


Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2007, 03:14:54 PM
Bear in mind I've never heard the piece and only seen chamber scores by the composer....

I sifted around your clues a little - a lot! - especially the bits about Brahms, Beecham (I worked him out, via Delius, from another of your clues) and the composer being Jewish. Wiki was - for once - quite a lot of help. I follwed a reed herring thinking the music was French (led astray by the edition) until I saw the 'sehr zart'.

One thing confused me a little - your clue which said

I assume this refers to Wolf (rabidly partisan beyond all doubt) and Goldmark (Wiki quotes Liebermann: "His writing is distinctive for his even-handed promotion of both Brahms and Wagner, at a time when audiences (and most critics) were solidly in one composer's camp or the other and viewed those on the opposing side with undisguised hostility.") - but Goldmark (b.1830) was 30 years older than Wolf (b.1860), whereas Delius (b.1862) was only two years Wolf's junior - and yet Delius was as rabidly partisan as Wolf, AFAIK.

Anyway, got there in the end.

***

So, the Delius is opera-derived....the Irmelin prelude?



Sorry about all that. Delius Irmelin Prelude - yes! All mine are in for now.

lukeottevanger

#408
A few left of Guido's and mine (more clues available above),  and they will all be solved.

All that is, except for the identification of Maciek's Serocki piece - my new guess, based on the 'one or more pianos' clue, is Forte e piano which I am told is for two pianos and orch.

And then, roll on Round Two!

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: Maciek on September 04, 2007, 03:05:19 PM
FWIW, I heard my first ever Delius piece last week. And it wasn't an opera (at least not that I'm aware of ;D)...

(OK, probably, I've heard Delius before that but I don't remember.)

He does have that effect  . . . .  :D

Guido

Great Maciek! Only three left of mine.

I think the composers of two are reasonably easy to find (or at least not impossible), if not the actual piece in question (although once the composer is guessed there is only a very limited range of things that each could be.)

On the one with for violin and piano, close study of the violin part might be advised...
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Maciek

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 04, 2007, 03:30:27 PM
All that is, except for the identification of Maciek's Serocki piece - my new guess, based on the 'one or more pianos' clue, is Forte e piano which I am told is for two pianos and orch.

The reasoning is flawless, therefore the conclusion is correct. 8)

(If you look closely, you'll notice that I even said the Serocki piece was for two pianos and orchestra. And there only seems to be one piece like that in his catalogue...)

m_gigena

Quote from: Maciek on September 04, 2007, 11:56:43 AM
Guido, why not add a few clues for us?

(BTW, do take a look in the Broadcast Corner!)

Guys, you better keep Maciek away... He does the Midas thing...


everything he touches turns polish.

lukeottevanger

#413
Quote from: Guido on September 04, 2007, 04:26:20 PM
On the one with for violin and piano, close study of the violin part might be advised...

Aha! - I had already thought of Schumann, but his A minor Sonata wasn't right. But....

...I forgot the Schumann-initiated FAE Sonata - Frei aber einsam - which was a collaborative effort between Schumann (who wrote the second and fourth movements), Brahms (whose Scherzo is probably the best-known movement) and Albert Dietrich, Schumann's pupil, whose first movement must be the answer to Guido's question. Dietrich must have absorbed enough of his teacher's style to be mistaken for him, because as I initially said, Schumann was my first thought when I saw this score.

The clue which Guido was hinting at, I assume, is the highlighted F - A - E on the last line (each movement makes reference to this motto); and now his clue about one of his works being a collaborative effort also makes sense.

Edit - this is Guido's no 16 I'm talking about, just to clarify

Guido

Brilliant. I can't seem to find a recording of the complete piece anywhere...
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

lukeottevanger

Excellent! That leaves only two of yours - and they're bloody hard, let me tell you! (They'll turn out to be something we [should] all know, of course...)

Still ten of mine to go, though. I'm happy to give more clues, but really, I'd expected someone to get no 10 by now - I thought it would be first to go!

Maciek

Quote from: Manuel on September 04, 2007, 05:22:22 PM
Guys, you better keep Maciek away... He does the Midas thing...


everything he touches turns polish.

Manuel, that remark in brackets was meant for Guido only because he collects pieces for cello. But you're right - it's the sort of thing that should be kept to PMs - I'll delete it in a sec.

(And I promise to stay away now.)

m_gigena

Quote from: Maciek on September 05, 2007, 03:07:25 AM
Manuel, that remark in brackets was meant for Guido only because he collects pieces for cello. But you're right - it's the sort of thing that should be kept to PMs - I'll delete it in a sec.

(And I promise to stay away now.)


Please don't. I was only joking. (I should have added one of the  ;D or  :D... )

Maciek

But I'm completely out of guesses anyway... :'(

(See, you should never trust me when I say "I promise"! ;D)

BTW, I promise: no more Polish music from me!

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 05, 2007, 02:18:13 AM
Excellent! That leaves only two of yours - and they're bloody hard, let me tell you! (They'll turn out to be something we [should] all know, of course...)

Still ten of mine to go, though. I'm happy to give more clues, but really, I'd expected someone to get no 10 by now - I thought it would be first to go!

That arpeggiation in the cellos suggests Philip Glass. But on the whole it doesn't look simple-minded enough to be Philip Glass.