Quiz: Mystery scores

[lukeottevanger]

With the ones I just mentioned of mine, (except the graphic score which is the locus classicus of its type), I think looking at the instrumentation carefully would be a big help; also the type of textures to which it is put. 40 and 41 are very idiomatic indeed; 36 less so, but it is an extremely well-known piece

[Larry Rinkel]

With the ones I just mentioned of mine, (except the graphic score which is the locus classicus of its type), I think looking at the instrumentation carefully would be a big help; also the type of textures to which it is put. 40 and 41 are very idiomatic indeed; 36 less so, but it is an extremely well-known piece

Luke 36 looks so close to Boulez's Rituel in Memoriam Bruno Maderna, except that the typography looks more like an autograph score than the engraved one I have. But if it's not Rituel, it's its twin brother!

[lukeottevanger]

Luke 36 looks so close to Boulez's Rituel in Memoriam Bruno Maderna, except that the typography looks more like an autograph score than the engraved one I have. But if it's not Rituel, it's its twin brother!

There you go - told you it was quite a simple one! One more to Larry.

[Larry Rinkel]

There you go - told you it was quite a simple one! One more to Larry.

Yeah, I get the simple ones! 

But how did you get that score? what page number is it?

[lukeottevanger]

I downloaded it from a friend who has the finest score collection I know of (at least in certain directions - he doesn't have any of the central repertoire, but what he does have outside it takes your breath away). It is page 21, IIRC, but that includes title page, orchestral layout page etc. etc.

[Larry Rinkel]

I downloaded it from a friend who has the finest score collection I know of (at least in certain directions - he doesn't have any of the central repertoire, but what he does have outside it takes your breath away). It is page 21, IIRC, but that includes title page, orchestral layout page etc. etc.

Part of what threw me at first was that your score looks handwritten, and the page numbers don't match mine. The engraved UE 15 941 has this music mostly on page 19, but there are discrepancies - e.g., what is a 6/8 measure for the oboe in group I is 6/4 in the UE score.

[lukeottevanger]

Just checked - the page in question is number 21 of the scanned pages my friend sent me, which includes title pages etc., but as far as numbered pages go, it is number 17. The score itself is a UE score, though - obviously a different edition of the piece than yours, however. The bottom of the first page of music gives the date 1975, and the UE number 15941 LW. Apart from the music itself, most of the score - title, introductory notes etc. - is in the easily identifiable UE typeface

[Maciek]

First a question - normally it would be addressed to Sean as the thread starter. But now that he has bailed out, it's left to the other users of this topic: don't you feel that perhaps this should be moved to the "Composing and Performing" section of the Music Room? Scores are, in a way, "technical" and less "general" than most other subjects started in the "General Classical Music Discussion" section. Somehow I feel this thread fits the general atmosphere of "Composing and Performing" better (besides - that's one of the smallest sections on GMG, it's always good to throw in another topic ). Also, the "Composing and Performing" section is much "slower" - so it would be always easy to find this topic (it wouldn't get "buried" by others easily). Please let me know your thoughts on this.

And now for some additional clues to mine:

while recording another piece by one of the composers, a certain soprano decided to take cash instead of royalties, and in effect missed out on a substantial income

one of the pieces is a part of a 3-part cycle; each part of that cycle is for an entirely different set of instruments

the composer of one of the pieces has written at least 11 other pieces of a similar kind

one of the pieces received an accolade at the UNESCO Rostrum

one of the pieces has a generic title

one of the pieces is not representative of the composer's current style

[Larry Rinkel]

no 38 - composer's style quite evident, but piece harder

no 39 - easiest of the lot

Desperate guesses by this point:

38 Ravel?
39 Cage?

[Larry Rinkel]

First a question - normally it would be addressed to Sean as the thread starter. But now that he has bailed out, it's left to the other users of this topic: don't you feel that perhaps this should be moved to the "Composing and Performing" section of the Music Room? Scores are, in a way, "technical" and less "general" than most other subjects started in the "General Classical Music Discussion" section. Somehow I feel this thread fits the general atmosphere of "Composing and Performing" better (besides - that's one of the smallest sections on GMG, it's always good to throw in another topic ). Also, the "Composing and Performing" section is much "slower" - so it would be always easy to find this topic (it wouldn't get "buried" by others easily). Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Not important to me either way.

[lukeottevanger]

Desperate guesses by this point:

38 Ravel?
39 Cage?

Neither, I'm afraid. But I know you can get both. 38 is an extremely dense, almost overloaded score, typical of this composer; the language set ought to help very much. Though the song itself is rather obscure, once you know the composer an internet search ought to find it - after all, that's where I got the score myself

39, as I said, is a page from the graphic score to end all graphic scores - the most famous and notorious, I think. It's composer - a controversial figure to say the least - was at the time earning his keep as a graphic designer, which perhaps shows in the score, which is a thing of beauty throughout its many pages (this one is page 183). A clue which will really help you - my father used to be a colleague of this composer's partner (though the composer himself is now dead, which is another story)

I am still positive that 40 and 41 are easily findable. In 40, it is not just the instruments but the way they are juxtaposed which is (in my experience) unique to this composer.

In 41, the music is stylistically extremely typical, but more than that, the instrumentation contains a big clue (you have to look carefully)

[lukeottevanger]

And now for some additional clues to mine:

while recording another piece by one of the composers, a certain soprano decided to take cash instead of royalties, and in effect missed out on a substantial income

one of the pieces is a part of a 3-part cycle; each part of that cycle is for an entirely different set of instruments

the composer of one of the pieces has written at least 11 other pieces of a similar kind

one of the pieces received an accolade at the UNESCO Rostrum

one of the pieces has a generic title

one of the pieces is not representative of the composer's current style

OK, so we're saying one of them is Gorecki, are we? Following your generous clues a little......

Genesis I for string trio - the first of a cycle of three pieces, each for a different group of instruments. And it isn't representative of the composer's current style.

And the UNESCO thing must have a generic title - String Quartet, then! - and goes with the 11 other string quartets thing....this one is Meyer (you are right, I was getting warm before!). His 11th Quartet is his op 95, and two of his quartets have represented Poland at the Unesco rostrum.....so, this must be either String Quartet 2 or 3

I'm guessing no 2; if it's wrong, can we take my guess at no 3 as read?   

[Larry Rinkel]

Neither, I'm afraid. But I know you can get both. 38 is an extremely dense, almost overloaded score, typical of this composer; the language set ought to help very much. Though the song itself is rather obscure, once you know the composer an internet search ought to find it - after all, that's where I got the score myself

Unfortunately the image is so hard to read I can't even make out the language for sure. I see the word "nostro" at one point, but then I see "zvon," so it can't be Italian.

Maybe it will come to me. After all, I got some others in time.

[lukeottevanger]

(As you can tell by now, I've decided not to be coy about using Google any more, as I was before with Larry's famous no 20, the first one I used it for! As these questions get harder, we need all the help we can get!)

[lukeottevanger]

Unfortunately the image is so hard to read I can't even make out the language for sure. I see the word "nostro" at one point, but then I see "zvon," so it can't be Italian.

Maybe it will come to me. After all, I got some others in time.

I suppose it is easier if you know what language it is already! But your instincts are good - it is a Romance language, but not one of the more obvious ones. Personally, I think it is clearest on the last line.

[Maciek]

Luke, you should be a detective (or did I give too many clues in one go?)! Yes, the one for trio is Henryk Mikolaj Gorecki's Genesis I (Elementi per tre archi). And yes, the other one is a String Quartet by Krzysztof Meyer. And, yes, it is the String Quartet No....... 3.

As for the connection between Schnittke and Meyer: 2 Slavic composers with German surnames. I'm sure you can appreciate the humor. 0:)

[lukeottevanger]

Luke, you should be a detective (or did I give too many clues in one go?)!

No, I think you gave just the right number  0:)

[Larry Rinkel]

I suppose it is easier if you know what language it is already! But your instincts are good - it is a Romance language, but not one of the more obvious ones. Personally, I think it is clearest on the last line.

(More desperate yet:)
Romanian? Enescu?

Earle Brown for your graphic notation?

[lukeottevanger]

(More desperate yet:)
Romanian? Enescu?

Yes! The score isn't in IMSLP, though they do have drool-worthy amounts of Enescu. However, it is online (JPEGs of each page) somewhere... the scanned copy belongs to contemporary Romanian composer Iancu Dumitrescu, which fact may well help if you wish to search for it.

Earle Brown for your graphic notation?

No, this composer is more controversial. Also, remember my slight familial connection - blatant clue as to nationality!

[Larry Rinkel]

Yes! The score isn't in IMSLP, but it is online somewhere...

No, this composer is more controversial. Also, remember my slight familial connection - blatant clue as to nationality!

Dutch, then. So I need a deceased Dutch composer who was also a graphic designer. I have no idea!