Quiz: Mystery scores

Started by Sean, August 27, 2007, 06:49:47 AM

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greg

Dutilleux? is that any closer?

Larry Rinkel


lukeottevanger

LR 45 - is this Maderna's Fantasia for two pianos and percussion? The Italian instrument names and the influence of Bartok on Maderna early on point me in this direction.

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 10, 2007, 10:04:31 AM
LR 45 - is this Maderna's Fantasia for two pianos and percussion? The Italian instrument names and the influence of Bartok on Maderna early on point me in this direction.

No, it's not, though in one way you're closer, and Bartok's name will come up again when the excerpt is identified. But no one has yet commented on the obvious point raised in this and a following excerpt.

lukeottevanger

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 10, 2007, 10:13:26 AM
No, it's not, though in one way you're closer, and Bartok's name will come up again when the excerpt is identified. But no one has yet commented on the obvious point raised in this and a following excerpt.

Do you mean the fact that 45 is an arrangement of 46 (or possibly vice versa). Do I get a point for that?  ;D

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 10, 2007, 12:08:07 PM
Do you mean the fact that 45 is an arrangement of 46 (or possibly vice versa). Do I get a point for that?  ;D

There we go! 45 and 46 are the same piece in different instrumentation. Now that you know there are four excerpts and three composers yet to identify, your next clue is that two of these composers were both at early stages in their careers rated very highly in certain circles, yet neither produced more than a handful of work. The other composer is American.

lukeottevanger

#726
I have a feeling LR 51 may be Barraque's Sequence.

edit - a bit more searching, and I'm pretty confident now. My train of thought:

1) Googling this text gives no results, therefore it must be a translation
2) The piece looks French for many reasons
3) but few likely composers in this style - looks like early, pretty hardcore serialism - spring to mind except Barraque; however, it looks like early Barraque, and a lot less complex than those of his later scores which I have seen
4) Barraque wrote an early piece, Sequence, which sets Nietzsche; this text looks fairly Nietzschean, though in translation
5) Searching reveals that Sequence's instrumentation is identical to this piece
6) With this conjecture in mind, searching for this text and adding in the name Nieztsche throws up the verse set here:

'The crows caw
And move in whirring flight to the city:
Soon it will snow —
Happy is he who yet—has a home!'

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 11, 2007, 01:06:45 AM
I have a feeling LR 51 may be Barraque's Sequence.

edit - a bit more searching, and I'm pretty confident now. My train of thought:

1) Googling this text gives no results, therefore it must be a translation
2) The piece looks French for many reasons
3) but few likely composers in this style - looks like early, pretty hardcore serialism - spring to mind except Barraque; however, it looks like early Barraque, and a lot less complex than those of his later scores which I have seen
4) Barraque wrote an early piece, Sequence, which sets Nietzsche; this text looks fairly Nietzschean, though in translation
5) Searching reveals that Sequence's instrumentation is identical to this piece
6) With this conjecture in mind, searching for this text and adding in the name Nieztsche throws up the verse set here:

'The crows caw
And move in whirring flight to the city:
Soon it will snow —
Happy is he who yet—has a home!'


Correct. Three pieces of mine by two composers yet to go. Your next clues are that:
- 45/46 exists actually in three versions, all of which have been recorded, but one of the scores has not been commercially published. The composer, who stopped writing at a fairly young age, went on to become a very famous musician in another capacity.
- The other composer died a few years ago and was extremely prolific. He is well-recorded and was well-regarded among those who knew him, though. He also played clarinet and taught college.

m_gigena

Quote from: Maciek on September 10, 2007, 05:05:18 AM
Manuel 3 title Violin Concerto?

That's correct. The composer mastered his instrument (the same with Manuel 4) and wrote many kind and aristrocratic concertos for it.

lukeottevanger

OK - LR 45/46 - L'Envol d'Icare - Markevitch. The 2 piano/percussion version is a later rescoring of the earlier orchestral work (which I have on CD and did not recognise  :-[ ). According to my liner notes, 'Bartok paid hommage to this trail-blazing score when completing his own Sonata for Two Pianos and percussion six years later).

It's hard to be entirely sure from comparing your score to my CD of L'Envol d'Icare (orchestral version), but the score is possibly Markevitch's later rescoring simply entitled Icare; there were a few clear differences in orchestration between the two.

You would not believe how many likely contenders I found for this piece last night, Larry! But the Markevitch it is.

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 11, 2007, 03:34:25 AM
OK - LR 45/46 - L'Envol d'Icare - Markevitch. The 2 piano/percussion version is a later rescoring of the earlier orchestral work (which I have on CD and did not recognise  :-[ ). According to my liner notes, 'Bartok paid hommage to this trail-blazing score when completing his own Sonata for Two Pianos and percussion six years later).

It's hard to be entirely sure from comparing your score to my CD of L'Envol d'Icare (orchestral version), but the score is possibly Markevitch's later rescoring simply entitled Icare; there were a few clear differences in orchestration between the two.

You would not believe how many likely contenders I found for this piece last night, Larry! But the Markevitch it is.

Indeed the Markevitch it is. The orchestral version is however "Icare," not the earlier, more radical "L'Envol d'Icare" famous for its use of quarter tones. And I would say only Markevitch fits all my clues: a young composer who is initially lauded as the next great thing in modern music (Igor the Second, Diaghilev's last discovery), whose 2-piano percussion version of this score may have been the inspiration for Bartok's great Sonata, who composes only a few works and then stops altogether, and who pursues a major career as a conductor.

Now what about my American? He, I suspect, will be harder to guess.

Any other scores left unidentified now?

lukeottevanger

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 03:50:10 AM
Indeed the Markevitch it is. The orchestral version is however "Icare," not the earlier, more radical "L'Envol d'Icare" famous for its use of quarter tones.

Good - my score reading isn't that bad, then, it is as I guessed.

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 03:50:10 AMAnd I would say only Markevitch fits all my clues: a young composer who is initially lauded as the next great thing in modern music (Igor the Second, Diaghilev's last discovery), whose 2-piano percussion version of this score may have been the inspiration for Bartok's great Sonata, who composes only a few works and then stops altogether, and who pursues a major career as a conductor.

In case you think I was, I wasn't complaining about the quality of your clues - actually, they seemed very well graded. Markevitch is the only one who fits the clues you gave this morning, which is why I was able to get him quite quickly after I saw your last one - though I didn't see a clue about this piece being the inspiration for Bartok, only that you said that a connection would become evident between the two. Last night, however, when I was busy trying to find out who it was, I of course wasn't aware of this morning's clues yet! So I was surprised to find more than one work for two pianos and percussion which had been re-orchestrated into orchestral garb, including some which seemed possible fits for this piece (and the Markevitch wasn;t even one of them). All in all, then, your clues narrowed down the field gradually and effectively.

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 03:50:10 AMNow what about my American? He, I suspect, will be harder to guess.

You suspect right, for my part.  ;D

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 03:50:10 AM
Any other scores left unidentified now?

Yes - look at my list on the previous page.

karlhenning

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 03:50:10 AM
Indeed the Markevitch it is. The orchestral version is however "Icare," not the earlier, more radical "L'Envol d'Icare" famous for its use of quarter tones. And I would say only Markevitch fits all my clues: a young composer who is initially lauded as the next great thing in modern music (Igor the Second, Diaghilev's last discovery), whose 2-piano percussion version of this score may have been the inspiration for Bartok's great Sonata, who composes only a few works and then stops altogether, and who pursues a major career as a conductor.

Brilliant, lads!

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 11, 2007, 04:06:53 AM
You suspect right, for my part.  ;D

The only other clue I'll give at this point is that my composer was also interested in jazz, and wasn't a radical avant-gardist. The delightful piece I'm quoting from has been thought of as an American counterpart to Prokofiev's Classical Symphony - though the composer's style is in fact far more eclectic and includes 12-tone writing.

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 04:14:50 AM
The only other clue I'll give at this point is that my composer was also interested in jazz, and wasn't a radical avant-gardist. The delightful piece I'm quoting from has been thought of as an American counterpart to Prokofiev's Classical Symphony - though the composer's style is in fact far more eclectic and includes 12-tone writing.

So - to put all my clues together for this composition and amplify them: This charming little symphony, probably not representative of its composer as a whole because he works a lot with jazz and 12-tone idioms, has been recorded and I in fact am aware of at least 16 CDs devoted to this composer's orchestral work. He died recently, was highly prolific, a New York Jew who grew up in Brooklyn, son of an emigrant baker, a clarinetist, a college teacher, but though highly regarded by those who knew him he is not as well known to the public as many other American names. Maybe in a little while I'll post an audio excerpt from the piece in question.

lukeottevanger

Then it is obviously Meyer Kupferman. One of his 12 symphonies?

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 11, 2007, 05:33:45 AM
Then it is obviously Meyer Kupferman. One of his 12 symphonies?

Excellent. Luke knows everything. Which symphony?

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on September 11, 2007, 05:44:20 AM
Excellent. Luke knows everything. Which symphony?

And how did you figure it out?

lukeottevanger

Well, obviously, I looked on my CD shelves (because, logically enough, mine are organised under father's profession, in this case File under: Baker).  ;) >:D

Larry Rinkel

Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 11, 2007, 06:04:54 AM
Well, obviously, I looked on my CD shelves (because, logically enough, mine are organised under father's profession, in this case File under: Baker).  ;) >:D

Of course, everyone organizes their CDs that way. I file Stravinsky under "opera singer," Carter under "lace importer," Berlioz under "doctor," Beethoven under "drunkard," and so on. But since the CD is on your shelf, you can surely identify the symphony.