Gustav Holst - The Planets

[karlhenning]

Which is the "best" Planet?

I really like the suite as a whole.  Not a dull moment in the lot.

(Wish I could say the same for . . . certain other composers :-)

[E d o]

In a BBC CD Review comparison the Atlanta/Levi disc came out on top.
Anyone here agree?

[bhodges]

In a BBC CD Review comparison the Atlanta/Levi disc came out on top.
Anyone here agree?

Interesting.  I haven't heard this one, but recall some other positive reviews.  It's a really competitive field, though, for this piece - many fine ones around.  My ears are still ringing (in a good way) from the CSO brass after hearing the Levine version last weekend. 

--Bruce

[Mark]

Favourite Planet? Venus. There are moments in it that bring a lump to my throat. A very bittersweet movement, IMO.

[jochanaan]

Interesting that someone should mention Ma Vlast.  There are some definite similarities between the two compositions; and Ma Vlast is not a minor piece by any standards; indeed, if you've got a good recording (mine is by Wolfgang Sawallisch and l'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande), it sounds very like great music.

But The Planets is special.  The concept is challenging, but without musical greatness it wouldn't be great.  (No, max, it's not about the Greco-Roman gods either, but rather about the planets' astrological significances.)

I think the instrumentation is one reason it's not performed more than it is.  Not many orchestras have a bass oboe or a tenor tuba at their disposal, and even alto flutes, contrabassoons and symphonic pipe organs are not easy to find.  (Yes, some of these parts can be played on other instruments, but the music loses something in the process.)

[sound67]

(Wish I could say the same for . . . certain other composers :-)

Stockhausen, e.g.

[hornteacher]

After reading this book on the history and composition of Holst's Planets, I will never refer to it as anything but a masterpiece.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-Planets-Cambridge-Music-Handbooks/dp/0521456339/ref=sr_1_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188346107&sr=1-1

[max]

(No, max, it's not about the Greco-Roman gods either, but rather about the planets' astrological significances.)

And what forsooth would that be if not based on the Greco-Roman pantheon? Is it mere coincidence that each movement in the work has the name of a Roman God in front of it?

If it’s only a matter of ‘astrological significance’ -  and I don’t  dispute that this too may have been in the mind of Holst – then why denote all it’s movements in the nomenclature of Roman Gods?

Listen to Mars and Venus and tell me if their music is not a unique portrait of each as described in myth?

This work to my mind, has more to do with the character of the corresponding God or Goddess as denoted in myth or connotated within astrology but least of all with the planets themselves which was my point!

… if the Planets were named for the first hierarchy of Roman Gods than why not name the work ‘The Planets’? One name incorporating the name of all it’s movements…aside from sounding more contemporary?

[M forever]

After reading this book on the history and composition of Holst's Planets, I will never refer to it as anything but a masterpiece.

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-Planets-Cambridge-Music-Handbooks/dp/0521456339/ref=sr_1_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188346107&sr=1-1

Tell us more about this book. I see they have it at the UCSD library, it might be interesting for me to read, so I could check it out when I go there in the next few days to return my currently checked out books...actually, I should go tomorrow as they are all overdue...uh...

[sound67]

As far as Star Wars goes, I'd rank Holst, Mahler and Stravinksy as the "top three" influences.

Let's not forget Korngold, whose "Kings Row" Theme is "alluded to" in the SW main theme.

[MDL]

I don't dislike it. I just find it not that interesting. It has never grabbed my attention, certainly doesn't do it for me the same way Ma Vlast does.

Hmm. Although The Planets is a bit derivative, with Stravinsky, Wagner and Debussy thrown into the pot, Holst filters those influences to create something with its own unique voice. Not one of the movements outstays its welcome or descends into empty bombast, unlike Ma Vlast. I like parts of Ma Vlast, but you could flush the scores of Tabor and Blanik down the toilet and the world wouldn't have lost anything important.

[Mark]

... but you could flush the scores of Tabor and Blanik down the toilet and the world wouldn't have lost anything important.

Weren't those two the final pair, written long after the others? I've always thought they felt 'bolted on'.

[hornteacher]

Tell us more about this book. I see they have it at the UCSD library, it might be interesting for me to read, so I could check it out when I go there in the next few days to return my currently checked out books...actually, I should go tomorrow as they are all overdue...uh...

Sure.  You'd probably enjoy it very much.  It's about 100 pages and examines Holst as a composer, how his style changed after WWI, the order in which the suite was composed, Holst's intense study of astrology and how it relates to the suite, critical reception of the work at its first performances, a brief analysis of each movement and the overall large scale structure of the suite, a listing of Holst's public performances, and a nice chart that lists the tempos of each movement as recorded by various orchestras and conductors.

It's not light reading but it is very interesting stuff.

[Lethevich]

Strange, I feel much the same way about the last two of Má Vlast. I didn't suspect they were composed under different circumstances, but definitely preferred the first four more (#4 remains my favourite). It's an amazing work though - I find it more comparable to Sibelius's Lemminkäinen suite than the Planets.

[MDL]

Strange, I feel much the same way about the last two of Má Vlast. I didn't suspect they were composed under different circumstances, but definitely preferred the first four more (#4 remains my favourite). It's an amazing work though - I find it more comparable to Sibelius's Lemminkäinen suite than the Planets.

Nice comparison with Sibelius. God only knows why anybody thought to compare Ma Vlast with The Planets in the first place. It's like comparing cheese and sausages.

[Lethevich]

Nice comparison with Sibelius. God only knows why anybody thought to compare Ma Vlast with The Planets in the first place. It's like comparing cheese and sausages.

I guess I shouldn't mention that last week I cooked some Sicilian sausages, which tend to come with Pecorino Romano cheese in the mixture

[MDL]

I guess I shouldn't mention that last week I cooked some Sicilian sausages, which tend to come with Pecorino Romano cheese in the mixture

Whoops. You got me. Sausages and ice cream then.

[Cato]

Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition is perhaps a better comparison, although the last movements are quite different in mood!

I recall Bernstein on a TV concert with the NY Philharmonic "ad-libbing" a "Pluto" movement after playing The Planets: I wonder if that is available anywhere.

[Montpellier]

I don't think Holst liked the popularity of The Planets and made sure he didn't repeat what he thought was a mistake.  It's a fine work, however - more engaging than most of his other work.   Moments of excellent orchestration appear in The Planets.

[jochanaan]

And what forsooth would that be if not based on the Greco-Roman pantheon? Is it mere coincidence that each movement in the work has the name of a Roman God in front of it?...

No, but those are also the names the astrologers use.  And if it were the mythological gods Holst was portraying, why is "Venus" called "The Bringer of Peace"?  That was not her function in Greco-Roman mythology; she was the goddess of sex (not Love; that was Cupid/Eros).  And Neptune was the sea god, while "Neptune" has nothing to do with the sea.  Of course, some mythology might have crept into the music...