EJ Moeran

[Mirror Image]

Vaughan Williams is the superior orchestral works composer,
but Bowen is the superior chamber works composer.

But RVW made major contributions in almost every genre including opera. His symphonies remain a milestone in symphonic writing and, thus, propelling him way into the top-tier of British composers. I'm not saying that Bowen doesn't deserve attention, I'm saying that I don't really see, or hear rather, why you rate him so highly, but we're all different and hear things in completely different ways. As much as I'd like to see Rubbra, for example, get as much recognition as RVW, I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen and I can certainly hear why RVW is such a revered composer internationally ---- he simply has a unique musical persona that only he possesses and this musical language of his is universal.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Moeran has the distinction of being one of:

"Six Magnificent Classical-Music-Composing Bastards (You've Probably Never Heard Of)"

http://www.mrdankelly.com/blog/?p=1343

Others so honoured include Havergal Brian and Peter Warlock. Who knew that Classical Music could be so badass?

Very funny article. Thanks!

[Scion7]

I don't know of any "major" chamber work recognized by Vaughan Williams.
Nice stuff, but "major"??

[Mirror Image]

I don't know of any "major" chamber work recognized by Vaughan Williams.
Nice stuff, but "major"??

Certainly the Phantasy Quintet and Violin Sonata count as major contributions to chamber music? For me, even if RVW didn't compose one piece of chamber music, his star would still shine much brighter than Bowen's and this is in part due to the strength of the orchestral music and, yes, I would count The Pilgrim's Progress as a major addition to the genre of opera. Also, let's not forget his choral music, which surely also helped put him ahead of the pack. He had such a singular approach and once you've heard heard a note from him, you can't mistake him for anyone else. But if the music itself wasn't any good, then that would be a different story, but, alas, it's incredible and anyone looking to get into British composers will most definitely run across RVW before they did Bowen or at least that's how I feel. Not that this is a popularity contest but merely pointing out that one composer has had a greater influence over the other.

[Scion7]

They count as great compositions.  SIGNIFICANT, no.  "Major" and "significant" have meanings along the lines of Bartok's string quartets - these were major innovative works that shook the world of chamber music - many, if not most, musicologists consider them the most important since Beethoven's.  That's the point I'm making.

Ol' Rafe was significant for his songs and his orchestral writing, musically.

By the way, until you come to terms with Bach, Beethoven, etc., we're going to continue to look at you as a "work in progress" or "person in therapy."       There is still hope!

[kishnevi]

RVW wrote "big" music, Bowen did not.  But Bowen's chamber music  is at least as good as anything by RVW, and his piano music is exceptional.
Did RVW write anything for piano? I don't remember any.

[Mirror Image]

They count as great compositions.  SIGNIFICANT, no.  "Major" and "significant" have meanings along the lines of Bartok's string quartets - these were major innovative works that shook the world of chamber music - many, if not most, musicologists consider them the most important since Beethoven's.  That's the point I'm making.

Ol' Rafe was significant for his songs and his orchestral writing, musically.

By the way, until you come to terms with Bach, Beethoven, etc., we're going to continue to look at you as a "work in progress" or "person in therapy."       There is still hope!

But my point is this: how many classical listeners, if interested in British music, can dodge RVW's influence? RVW's influence can be heard in the music of Moeran, Finzi, Howells, Rubbra, some Britten, some Tippett, Holst (though I'm sure Holst influenced some of RVW's music), Gordon Jacob, and several others whose names I'm forgetting right now. I'm not saying that Bowen isn't a good composer or of any significance in his own right, I'm just saying that when it comes to British music (leave Germanic music out of this please and Bartok for that matter), RVW is a giant.

[Scion7]

... RVW is a giant.

Yes, he is - remember, I grew up in listening to him in school ad nauseam, much more than you native-born Americans will ever understand!   :-)

But he isn't remembered for his chamber pieces. 

To get back on topic, has anyone ever attended a concert that a piece by Moeran was performed?

[vandermolen]

  Yes, he is - remember, I grew up in listening to him in school ad nauseam, much more than you native-born Americans will ever understand!   :-)

But he isn't remembered for his chamber pieces. 

To get back on topic, has anyone ever attended a concert that a piece by Moeran was performed?

I attended Moeran's Symphony at the Proms in London (2009). I was really thrilled to see it live. I hope that BBC Music Magazine will release it as their accompanying CD one day - their choices are getting a bit more adventurous (Stenhammar's Second Symphony recently).

[revdrdave]

Did RVW write anything for piano? I don't remember any.

Yes, he did, about three-quarters of a CD worth but piano music was never a large part of his output.

[vandermolen]

Yes, he did, about three-quarters of a CD worth but piano music was never a large part of his output.

'The Lake in the Mountains' is worth hearing in its piano version:

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Back on topic:
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[cilgwyn]

I love this symphony. This was the first recording I heard. I had the Lp when I was a youngster. I love that photo. I used to prop it up in front of me while I was listening. Their Bax cycle had wonderful photos too.



I also have the Boult recording and the Neville Dilkes recording which I got after reading that vandermolen likes it. The HMV release fills out the cd playing time with Barbirolli's wonderful recordings of Ireland's London Overture and Bax's Tintagel,which makes a very satisfying concert. I also have a cd-r of Heward's recording. I filled out the cd-r playing time with recordings of Barbirolli's recordings of Ireland's The Forgotten Rite and Mai Dun.

[vandermolen]

I love this symphony. This was the first recording I heard. I had the Lp when I was a youngster. I love that photo. I used to prop it up in front of me while I was listening. Their Bax cycle had wonderful photos too.



I also have the Boult recording and the Neville Dilkes recording which I got after reading that vandermolen likes it. The HMV release fills out the cd playing time with Barbirolli's wonderful recordings of Ireland's London Overture and Bax's Tintagel,which makes a very satisfying concert. I also have a cd-r of Heward's recording. I filled out the cd-r playing time with recordings of Barbirolli's recordings of Ireland's The Forgotten Rite and Mai Dun.

The Moeran and Ireland works are a great programme - three of my favourite works. I loved the 'Ring of Kerry' photo on the cover of the original Dilkes LP release which was a wonderful discovery. I was working in Harrods as a student and invariably spent my lunch hour in the record dept. I impulse bought the Moeran Symphony and always loved it.

[cilgwyn]

Yes,I really enjoy that performance. I've got it lined up now,actually. I have a fondness for the Handley though,because it's the first one I heard. There must be a photo of the original Dilkes Lp somewhere. I must admit I got rid of the 'enchant' Chandos reissue of the Handley recording because it didn't have that photo! The other one has some rocks on it!!
I was just looking at the Moeran Dilkes Lp you refer to on ebay, Yes,I can see why you wanted that. The emi studio release,which I hadn't seen before,does appear to have it on the front,albeit in a shrunken,butchered form!   The Hmv release has the Ireland & Bax,though,as compensation!

[vandermolen]

Yes,I really enjoy that performance. I've got it lined up now,actually. I have a fondness for the Handley though,because it's the first one I heard. There must be a photo of the original Dilkes Lp somewhere. I must admit I got rid of the 'enchant' Chandos reissue of the Handley recording because it didn't have that photo! The other one has some rocks on it!!
I was just looking at the Moeran Dilkes Lp you refer to on ebay, Yes,I can see why you wanted that. The emi studio release,which I hadn't seen before,does appear to have it on the front,albeit in a shrunken,butchered form!   The Hmv release has the Ireland & Bax,though,as compensation!

I did exactly the same as you with the 'enchant' CD for the same reason. Yes, the EMI Studio release has my favourite CD cover image as it, sort of, reproduces the LP photo. I liked the Chandos budget release Cello Concerto/Violin Concerto release with its flock of birds cover. As a performance of the Cello Concerto, however, I much prefer the Boult/Coetmore release which is deeply moving. The Cello Concerto is my next favourite work by Moeran:
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[cilgwyn]

Of course the cd artwork shouldn't really be that important......but I kept looking at it......and it played on my mind! In the end I just had to buy it!! The HMV label's artwork for the Dilkes Moeran is allright. It looks like one of those old painting by numbers efforts. I remember when I was a youngster,an elderly aunt knowing I liked painting,bought me a painting by numbers set. I remember my being mortified when I opened my present.  You don't buy a budding little Picasso Jr a painting by numbers kit! The ego!! Lenny the Lion went down allot better the following year!!

[vandermolen]

Of course the cd artwork shouldn't really be that important......but I kept looking at it......and it played on my mind! In the end I just had to buy it!! The HMV label's artwork for the Dilkes Moeran is allright. It looks like one of those old painting by numbers efforts. I remember when I was a youngster,an elderly aunt knowing I liked painting,bought me a painting by numbers set. I remember my being mortified when I opened my present.  You don't buy a budding little Picasso Jr a painting by numbers kit! The ego!! Lenny the Lion went down allot better the following year!!

Personally I preferred Sparky's Magic Piano. Sorting out my CDs today (as instructed) I came across that fine original Chandos release of Vernon Handley with the Ulster Orchestra with the fine cover image of 'Purple and Tomies Mountains/Lough Leane. Co. Kerry' by Derek Forss FRPS. It is indeed a fine performance I also like the photo of Moeran and his pipe at the back of the booklet, looking slightly less troubled than usual. I like having photos of composers in the booklet. It annoyed me when Bernstein's great Sony CD of William Schuman symphonies contained loads of photos of Lennie but none of the composer. Likewise when DGG issued their CD of Honegger's Second and 'Liturgique' symphonies replacing the fine line drawing of Honegger from the original LP with yet another photo of Herbert Von Karajan. Don't worry this will all be resolved in my psychotherapy sessions. 
PS I enjoyed your 'Painting by Numbers' anecdote. Your comment about the HMV image looking like Painting by Numbers made me laugh - it will never seem the same again.
PPS the end of the slow movement of Moeran's Symphony is a most beautiful section of the score - I find it very moving.

[Mirror Image]

I did exactly the same as you with the 'enchant' CD for the same reason. Yes, the EMI Studio release has my favourite CD cover image as it, sort of, reproduces the LP photo. I liked the Chandos budget release Cello Concerto/Violin Concerto release with its flock of birds cover. As a performance of the Cello Concerto, however, I much prefer the Boult/Coetmore release which is deeply moving. The Cello Concerto is my next favourite work by Moeran:
[asin]B00013BOF6[/asin]

I'll have to seek out this Coetmore/Boult recording, Jeffrey. Thanks for the heads-up. I take it this performance in question is on the Lyrita label?

[vandermolen]

I'll have to seek out this Coetmore/Boult recording, Jeffrey. Thanks for the heads-up. I take it this performance in question is on the Lyrita label?

Be aware John that the soloist on this Lyrita release is Moeran's widow. By the time she made the recording she was no longer performing regularly in concert and therefore her playing is not as polished as the recordings on Chandos and Naxos. Having said that there is a humanity about this performance which, in my eyes, elevates it above all those version. You might be interested in my review of the CD on Amazon UK and the comment by Peter Gage below it. This is, along with the symphony, Moeran's greatest work:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/E-Moeran-Cello-Concerto-Sonata-x/dp/B00165QOSK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1485246164&sr=1-1&keywords=Moeran+coetmore

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[vandermolen]

I've added the cover image to the Lyrita CD (above).
I find the picture very poignant. Moeran was a troubled man probably due to having shrapnel in his head from the First World War. His friendship with  the composer Peter Warlock didn't do him any good either. He married late in life to the cellist Piers Coetmore, the soloist on the Lyrita recording. The relationship was also troubled and the marriage was not especially happy - they spent long periods apart as she was touring frequently. I find the photo moving because although they are holding hands you get a sense, I think, that all is not well from the body language and facial expressions - like they are close but not close. The fact that it is a black and white photo in a bleak moorland landscape ( where I suspect Moeran felt most at home) only adds to it. Maybe I'm retrospectively reading things into it which were not there. Anyway, I love the CD - greatest, though least polished performance of the Cello Concerto and find the climax of the last movement to be overwhelming. Boult's accompaniment is also wonderful - a truly great disc.